France, Germany Criticize Iraq Resolution

[Defiant]

Originally posted by GePap


just one problem...that money is Iraqi money. There will be NO recouping a few hundread billion dollars that we will spend on this venture.

Iraq sits on the second largest oil reserve in the world, their current draw on oil barely touches the full capability, with another countries oil technology there can be more production and efficient oil drilling. Nobody is foolish enough to believe the wars recoup will be in a year, but first the true [incremental] cost need to be evaluated, some of those troops would still be in the service and the incremental cost needs to be determined and that's what we need to cover.

[Defiant]

Originally posted by Chemical Ollie


Didn't you say the oil belongs to the Iraqi people?

I am not advocation taking the oil for USA personal profit, used only to recover the cost of the war, that's fair man.

[Chemical Ollie]

Why should the Iraqi people pay for the war? They did not ask for it, you did.

[CorpusScorpius]

Originally posted by Chemical Ollie


This is such BS. Naturally a small island could prosper from getting a lot of foreign troops, but not a 80 million nation like Germany. Those troops contribute like a fart in cosmos, especially as they bring most of the goods they consume from US. Hey, they even drive around in cars with American licence plates - what's wrong with Mercedes and BMWs?

How is it BS......no matter what the exact #'s of troops & family members reside in Germany, the US Military is the equivalent of a corporation w/ many employees living in said country.
Sir Ralph..........I dont know what the majority of German citizens feel about the US Mil presence in Germany But if they want The US to leave THEIR country.......Thats Great

[Japher]

The Iraqi ppl are not paying for the war Sadam is with profits that would of been his. How are the people paying? By not having to bust their hides to pull Sadam's oil out of the ground... That's a pretty good trade I think.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Defiant


I am not advocation taking the oil for USA personal profit, used only to recover the cost of the war, that's fair man.

and that ISN'T what Bush and company have planned for that oil...

[Defiant]

Originally posted by Chemical Ollie
Why should the Iraqi people pay for the war? They did not ask for it, you did.

If they are better off becaue of it, then it is justified, I don't know if you were listening but alot of the exiled Iraqis did want freedom to their country. And I am not advocating taking all oil until the war is paid for, a percentage that is reasonable to both sides.

[GePap]

The fact that iraq sit on all the oil means diddly. let's see how it would work:

The US treasury, that is, you or me, pays several hundread billion dollars overall to reconstruct Iraq. (note that this has already cost the US 120 billion, and the CBO is saying the yearly cost to the US could come to between 90 and 120 billion with the current troop levels..sowing how much UN aid might be worth)

Now, in theory Iraqis will approve so much of the US that oil contracts will go to private US oil companies.

NOw, assuming that these companies pay all the taxes they are meant to pay, the US treasury will see a few billion come in each year. It is also assumed that the provate oil companies will use some of their handsome profits to invest in the US, hence increasing tax revenue for the Treasury in other areas.

But the fact is, it will take decades at least, assuming the rosy picture, to see the US treasury get backedit the money it will shell out. Note also that since many of these oil corps are multinationals, many states will see txes ceom from them. Also, the Iraqis, if trully independent, will be free to sign oil contarcts with others anyway. And the bulk of all the profits will go to Iraq anyway..unless the war was for oil?

[Defiant]

Originally posted by Sava
and that ISN'T what Bush and company have planned for that oil...

I know you know Bush inside and out, and you sit in on his cabinet meetings but you might be wrong.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Defiant
I know you know Bush inside and out, and you sit in on his cabinet meetings but you might be wrong.

It's my belief based upon actions, not my perceptions of their character. Halliburton is making money hand over foot in Iraq. The Bush admin is connected with Big Oil... Big Oil is profiting off of this war. My conclusion on Bush's motives are based on these facts. Either my conclusion is true, or it's not, and Bush is indifferent to the war profiteering.

[Defiant]

Originally posted by GePap
The fact that iraq sit on all the oil means diddly. let's see how it would work:

The US treasury, that is, you or me, pays several hundread billion dollars overall to reconstruct Iraq. (note that this has already cost the US 120 billion, and the CBO is saying the yearly cost to the US could come to between 90 and 120 billion with the current troop levels..sowing how much UN aid might be worth)

Now, in theory Iraqis will approve so much of the US that oil contracts will go to private US oil companies.

NOw, assuming that these companies pay all the taxes they are meant to pay, the US treasury will see a few billion come in each year. It is also assumed that the provate oil companies will use some of their handsome profits to invest in the US, hence increasing tax revenue for the Treasury in other areas.

But the fact is, it will take decades at least, assuming the rosy picture, to see the US treasury get backedit the money it will shell out. Note also that since many of these oil corps are multinationals, many states will see txes ceom from them. Also, the Iraqis, if trully independent, will be free to sign oil contarcts with others anyway. And the bulk of all the profits will go to Iraq anyway..unless the war was for oil?

Gepap, I still don't believe 90-120 billion as an incremental cost increase(those aircraft carriers would still be swimming), if we didn't go to war, what would have the true savings been and don't forget that the economy got a 3% boost from the war activity from defense spending.

[Defiant]

Originally posted by Sava
It's my belief based upon actions, not my perceptions of their character. Halliburton is making money hand over foot in Iraq. The Bush admin is connected with Big Oil... Big Oil is profiting off of this war. My conclusion on Bush's motives are based on these facts. Either my conclusion is true, or it's not, and Bush is indifferent to the war profiteering.

How do you know they are raking in the bucks from the war, just because?

[Harovan]

Originally posted by CorpusScorpius
How is it BS......no matter what the exact #'s of troops & family members reside in Germany, the US Military is the equivalent of a corporation w/ many employees living in said country.

As I said, most of them is already gone in the early 90's. If there was a damage, it has already happened 10 years ago. Btw, Ollie is right. Their food and clothing is almost completely imported from the US and they employ practically none of the locals. By the way, most of them are in Iraq now anyway. Defiants "great idea to send those troops to Iraq" shows just his lack of information. They are already there.

Sir Ralph..........I dont know what the majority of German citizens feel about the US Mil presence in Germany But if they want The US to leave THEIR country.......Thats Great

The acceptance has sunken to an all time low. I think it's time to pack. Send them to your new friends, the Poles. They will be honored. It will take a few decades till they become sick of them too.

[Chemical Ollie]

Originally posted by CorpusScorpius


How is it BS......

For the reasons I already explained. Germany is a large and rich nation, thus the US troop's contribution to their economy is a very minor share. Especially as the US troops rather import things from home than buy German goods.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Defiant


How do you know they are raking in the bucks from the war, just because?

Daily newspapers, online news, cable news, etc... it's not as if it's a big secret that Halliburton has received no-bid contracts that are basically blank checks.