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  • France, Germany Criticize Iraq Resolution

    :fu:

    France, Germany Criticize Iraq Resolution
    13 minutes ago

    DRESDEN, Germany - The leaders of Germany and France on Thursday criticized a U.S. push for international help in Iraq (news - web sites), saying the United Nations (news - web sites) should guide Iraq's political rebuilding and that more responsibility must be turned over to Iraqi leaders.

    The comments from German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder and French President Jacques Chirac were a response to the United States' proposed U.N. resolution seeking troops and money for Iraq's postwar reconstruction but declining to relinquish political or military control of the country.

    Schroeder and Chirac, both adamant opponents of the war in Iraq, said they wanted to see a greater role for the United Nations in guiding the country's reconstruction. Such a role was not included in the draft U.N. resolution circulated by the United States on Wednesday.

    "We are naturally ready to study it in the most positive manner," Chirac said. "But we are quite far removed from what we believe is the priority objective, which is the transfer of political responsibility to an Iraqi government as quickly as possible."

    Schroeder said the draft resolution had brought "movement" into the diplomacy. But he added: "I agree with the president when he says: Not dynamic enough, not sufficient."

    The statements dealt a blow to the proposed U.S. resolution. France is one of five permanent members of the U.N. Security Council, a position that gives it veto power over Council actions.

    The U.S. resolution was made public Wednesday. The draft resolution, obtained by The Associated Press, would transform the U.S.-led military force in Iraq into a U.N.-authorized multinational force under a unified command. It would also ask the Iraqi Governing Council to cooperate with the United Nations and U.S. officials in Baghdad to produce a timetable and program for drafting a new constitution and holding democratic elections.

    Key provisions in the U.S. draft would:

    _ Call on U.N. member states to help train and equip an Iraqi police force.

    _ Invite the U.S.-appointed Iraqi Governing Council to cooperate with the United Nations and U.S. officials in Baghdad to produce "a timetable and program for the drafting of a new constitution for Iraq and for the holding of democratic elections."

    _ Ask the U.N. representative in Iraq to facilitate a "national dialogue and consensus building" to promote the political transition.

    _ Ask all U.N. member states and international and regional organizations "to accelerate the provision of substantial financial contributions to support the Iraqi reconstruction effort" and appeal to international financial institutions to take immediate steps to provide a full range of loans and other assistance.

    _Call on countries in the region "to prevent the transit of terrorists, arms for terrorists, and financing that would support terrorists."

    But Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites), who outlined the U.S. proposal at a news conference Wednesday, made clear that "the United States will continue to play a dominant role" both politically and militarily. An American commander would take charge of the multinational force and U.S. civilian administrator L. Paul Bremer would keep the top political post, he said.

    To council nations that want responsibilities in Iraq to be shared, Powell said, "With the resolution, you're essentially putting the Security Council into the game."

    On Thursday, reaction from Security Council members was mixed. Hours before Schroeder and Chirac spoke, Russia sent its first signal that it might consider sending peacekeepers to Iraq as part of an international force.

    "It all depends on a specific resolution. I wouldn't exclude it outright," Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov told the Interfax news agency.




    And in Beijing, Foreign Ministry spokesman Kong Quan said the U.S. offer to share Iraq's postwar reconstruction was in line with the objectives of China, which has "actively participated" in the effort to increase U.N. participation.

    "We have all along stood for the early restoration of stability throughout Iraq," Kong said. "We have stood for the important growth of the United Nations in this endeavor."

    He didn't provide details. China's foreign policy is typically cautious, and — publicly, at least — it is reluctant to intervene officially in conflicts. But Beijing opposed unilateral American military action in Iraq and said all such activity should go through the United Nations.

    U.S. diplomats are expected to engage in behind-the-scenes negotiations on the resolution's text, first with the veto-wielding permanent members, then with the rest of the Security Council.

    Powell discussed the resolution Wednesday with his Russian, German and French counterparts as well as with U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan (news - web sites). He said he expected to get reaction and suggestions to the resolution from fellow Security Council members by the end of the week.

    "We will see where we are at the beginning of (next) week and push it as aggressively as we can," he said.

    Powell said he didn't foresee "an extended process" of negotiations. Other council diplomats said they would like the resolution to be adopted before ministers gather for the meeting of the U.N. General Assembly on Sept. 23.

    But some European countries are likely to resist if the United States continues to try to hold on to all the lucrative and influential ventures, such as oil contracts and the political rebuilding process, according to some council diplomats who spoke on condition of anonymity.

    The postwar operation is costing the United States about $3.9 billion a month and has strained the American military, which has some 140,000 troops stationed in Iraq.

    The resolution envisions a substantial infusion of international aid to defray costs now largely borne by U.S. taxpayers. At the same time, the administration is preparing a new budget request for $60 billion to $70 billion for reconstruction and the military operation of Iraq — nearly double what Congress was expecting, The Washington Post reported.
    Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
    "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
    He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

  • #2
    France and Germany don't want to contribute money or troops. There is no cost to them in criticizing. Another resolution won't change this fact. Just a global version of rope-a-dope.

    But who cares what France and Germany think? They are not the targets for this resolution. Rather, it is Pakistan and Turkey that can provide troops in significant numbers.
    I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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    • #3
      How much is required before the U.S. and Britain just say screw you?
      Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
      "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
      He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

      Comment


      • #4
        We can't afford to do that, we've made a big mess for ourselves now we can't afford to keep sorting it out. No reason why anyone else should help if we're not going to let them have a say in running things.
        Jon Miller: MikeH speaks the truth
        Jon Miller: MikeH is a shockingly revolting dolt and a masturbatory urine-reeking sideshow freak whose word is as valuable as an aging cow paddy.
        We've got both kinds

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        • #5
          So we should let them be imperialistic?
          www.my-piano.blogspot

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          • #6
            Who's 'them' you mean 'us'? I was using 'we' to mean the US and UK.
            Jon Miller: MikeH speaks the truth
            Jon Miller: MikeH is a shockingly revolting dolt and a masturbatory urine-reeking sideshow freak whose word is as valuable as an aging cow paddy.
            We've got both kinds

            Comment


            • #7
              We're giving what the Iraqis what they want. How could the introduction of a "say" for France or Germany be beneficial for anyone but those two countries?
              www.my-piano.blogspot

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              • #8
                Have a say??
                Mike, they authorized a cease-fire, and when Hussein didn't do what he was supposed to, they just blew it off.

                I've a HELL of a lot more respect for someone who says they don't like me, nor will ever support, than I do for a liar.
                Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
                "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
                He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

                Comment


                • #9
                  They authorised a cease fire?

                  Just looking at it from their point of view. Why on earth would they financially support something they never agreed with in the first place?
                  Jon Miller: MikeH speaks the truth
                  Jon Miller: MikeH is a shockingly revolting dolt and a masturbatory urine-reeking sideshow freak whose word is as valuable as an aging cow paddy.
                  We've got both kinds

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by DanS
                    France and Germany don't want to contribute money or troops. There is no cost to them in criticizing. Another resolution won't change this fact. Just a global version of rope-a-dope.

                    But who cares what France and Germany think? They are not the targets for this resolution. Rather, it is Pakistan and Turkey that can provide troops in significant numbers.
                    But France has a veto.

                    But good news is positive feedback so far from Russia and China. Will France really cast a sole veto?

                    In any case this is negotiating - anyone expect Chirac to just roll over and say, ooh, we love you, of course we'll vote for this res. ?

                    We put our first offer on the table. They diss it (note - he focused on timetable to Iraq rule, not on the issue of US command) We either respond or ask for a counterproposal.

                    Now that doesnt mean it always works out - in the winter it didnt. But its way too soon to say.
                    "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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                    • #11
                      So the horse trading starts.

                      The US (and UK) want help in Iraq. The rest of the Security Council want more influence on what goes on in the country but won't want to be seen to block international help and support that benefits the people of Iraq.

                      There will be a deal behind the scenes and a resolution simply because no-one involved can afford to be blamed for there not being one.

                      Prediction - the US will retain the overall military command simply through having more troops in Iraq than anyone else. The UN will get a bigger say in some of the reconstruction work, but not anything oil related. Paul Bremer will be left in charge to sort out the political timetable but that timetable will have to get eventual UN endorsement.
                      Last edited by CerberusIV; September 4, 2003, 11:22.
                      Never give an AI an even break.

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                      • #12
                        You have your facts really, really wrong.
                        Yes, they were part of a U.N. coalition force, that authorized, no, demanded, a cease-fire.
                        Bush Sr. wanted to drag Hussein out by his heels, and the inglorious U.N. protested.

                        Read 1441.

                        UN, Mission, United Nations Permanent Mission, Permanent Mission, Permanent Missions, Permanent Missions Mission to the United Nations



                        Don't be like some of these uninformed/ill-informed morons, Mike.
                        Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
                        "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
                        He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Ah, you didn't say you were talking about Gulf War 1.

                          Are you telling me that I was wrong in saying that France and Germany didn't support this war?
                          Jon Miller: MikeH speaks the truth
                          Jon Miller: MikeH is a shockingly revolting dolt and a masturbatory urine-reeking sideshow freak whose word is as valuable as an aging cow paddy.
                          We've got both kinds

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by SlowwHand
                            You have your facts really, really wrong.
                            Yes, they were part of a U.N. coalition force, that authorized, no, demanded, a cease-fire.
                            Bush Sr. wanted to drag Hussein out by his heels, and the inglorious U.N. protested.

                            Read 1441.

                            UN, Mission, United Nations Permanent Mission, Permanent Mission, Permanent Missions, Permanent Missions Mission to the United Nations



                            Don't be like some of these uninformed/ill-informed morons, Mike.
                            just to correct slow - it was left to the US to negotiate the details of the '91 ceasefire. Schwarzkopf in particular. US said no flights. Iraqis said the roads are shot, can we use choppers to move folks around. Schwarzkopf said sure. Ok if we use armed copters? Sure. Well it was the helo's that they used to crush the Shiite and Kurdish rebellions. Purely oversight? Powell and others later said that if Saddam had fallen to the rebellion, we would have had the responsibility for keeping order in Iraq, and it would have been a mess. Well guess what - we now DO have that responsibility, and its more of a mess in part cause the Shiites dont trust us, cause of '91.

                            Face it - we left Saddam in cause Bush,Sr didnt want to occupy Iraq - not cause of the UN - in all probability cause Bush's Saudi friends didnt want a Shia/kurdish dominated state next door.
                            "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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                            • #15
                              oh, and the ceasefire went in well we were in the midst of destroying the Republican Guard - a few more hours would have made a big difference (the UNSC couldnt have managed to tie its shoes in a few hours) . You know who pushed for a quick ceasefire - Colin Powell. He claims cause the images from the "highway of death" were so horrific, and more would hurt the US in the region. Or it could have been that he and others didnt want the Republican Guard destroyed.
                              "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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