Why do East Asians still hold grudges against Japan?

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
So, while it is true that the Germans have been more penitent for their actions than the Japanese have, that does not mean that the Germans are somehow more ashamed of their past actions than the Japanese.

Do you realize the German penitence is not only a government thing, far from it ? Sure, the guilt program at first has been promoted by the government, but it had the time to completely brainwaish the Germans. To the point that many opposed Schröder when he started his project of giving back a sense of self-confidence to Germany. To the point that any German politician can see his whole carreer going down in flames after any blunder that could be deemed antisemitic (and you know some Jews are quite trigger-happy with this word).

You also realize that after the first hype and playing buddy-buddy with the Yanks and the Euros, the Germans continued their guilt program for internal aims such as drastically changing their society and their collective mentality ? Right ?

Tsk. I understand why you are so dismissive of the German postwar guilt, if you think this is only a government thing.

[Drake Tungsten]

Spiff -

I never said that German guilt was only a government thing; I clearly said that both that Japanese and German populations seem to regret the past actions of their nations.

The main difference between Germany and Japan is not in the attitudes of their respective populaces, but in the level to which their governments have publicly apologized for WWII. Germany had done better than Japan in this area, but I don't believe it was done for the altruistic reasons you and other people seem to attribute the German actions to. Germany had good political reasons to show remorse for WWII, reasons Japan never had.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
I clearly said that both that Japanese and German populations seem to regret the past actions of their nations.

Well, OK. I never went to Japan, so I can only take your word that the Japanese population is regretting deeply the horrors of the past. This just surprises me, since the only guilt I've heard about was guilt over militarism, rather than guilt over atrocities (two very different things)

[Drake Tungsten]

guilt over militarism, rather than guilt over atrocities (two very different things)

I don't know if I agree with this statement. Japanese atrocities in WWII were inextricably linked with militarism, in ways very different from the German experience.

[Alexander's Horse]

All this thread shows is DanS knows practically nothing about East Asia.

[Sava]

Americans don't seem to understand that other countries have longer memories.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
I don't know if I agree with this statement. Japanese atrocities in WWII were inextricably linked with militarism, in ways very different from the German experience.

HOw so? German attrocties could only occur in araes under German cvontrol, ie, the resuls of german militarism.

Do the Japanese put up monuments of any type to remember their actions vs. the Chinese in Nanking? Do Japanese textbooks explore the actions of the Japanese military and state that these were horrible attrocities? Wat is the feeling towards Jaspan's war leaders (with the exception of the Emperor, which is a complex case)?

The Germans have paid out tens of billions, have made it a criminal offense to spouse the vioews of the offending regime, have monuments to their guilt everywhere, have deep debates as to whether they can even claim that they in some ways were victims (the Strategic bombing issue), so forht and so on. I have to agree with Spiff, the Germans have gone much farther than the Japasnese at the "person on the street" level of accepting responsibility for actions in the 30's and 40's.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Sava
Americans don't seem to understand that other countries have longer memories.

If Americans held any anger towards another people, then others would automatically assume its because of racism. Why do the Chinese get a special pass on this issue? It seems highly ****ing hypocritical of the Chinese goverment to get sensitive about this when they have done just as much harm to their own people as the Japanese did.

[Bereta_Eder]

America hasn't (yet?) endured something of the necessairy proportions to make her develop long memory. May she never does, of course.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by paiktis22
America hasn't (yet?) endured something of the necessairy proportions to make her develop long memory. May she never does, of course.

Yes we have. It's just that we did it to ourselves in the 1860's and it has hung around in one form or another ever since.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Spiffor

So ? Does it make their efforts into acknowledging it any less outstanding ?

Admitting you did something wrong is not OUTSTANDING. It is basic. Failing to admit wrong action is vexing and immature. And unfortunately natural. But it is not superhuman or the like to admit wrongness. Just basic. Children get taught this by their parents.

[SlowwHand]

Japan is a nation of bigots.

[Kuciwalker]

That would have been even funnier if you'd said "Japanese are bigots"

[TCO]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Japan is a nation of bigots.

they are not bigots. Just members of the true race and nation and blessed empire.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
All this thread shows is DanS knows practically nothing about East Asia.

Enlighten us please.