Alabama Supreme Court

[The diplomat]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
YES IT IS. You're once again WILLFULLY IGNORING facts, in that it is UNCONSTITUTIONAL to display the Ten Commandments in a courthouse. The SCOTUS specifically ruled on this in 1980.

If the 10 Commandments are unsconstitutional because they are religious, then answer me this:

How come Congress called for a national day of thanksgiving to God when the Constitution was passed?

How come President Washington repeatedly mnade reference to God during his speeches?

How come President Lincoln enacted a National day of Prayer and thanksgiving to God during the Civil War?

How come the Senate opens with prayer with a protestant chaplain?

The truth is that the 1st Amendment never meant that government should be 100% secular. It simply says that government cannot legislate religion.

[The diplomat]

Originally posted by GePap
The people of Alabama did not elect him to put up a monument to the Ten Commandments. they elected him to enforce the law of the land. He has failed them.

He was known as the "ten commandments judge". The constituents knew full well what is views on that subject were.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Berzerker
MtG -
You mean like calling a chunk of stone an "administrative action" game?

Do you have a reading comprehension problem?

Yeah, the "chunk of stone" just walked itself into the ****ing building all on it's own, and Moore had nothing to do with that.

He doesn't run the building as the senior officer of the court, he has no authority over state employees, that's why the other eight justices of the Alabama Supreme Court entered an order specifically overriding his previous directives.

[Berzerker]

Odin -

Read my statement on Jefferson before you blabber some more.

You mean your opinion about how he'd feel?

Thomas Jefferson would be appalled at this violation of the 1st Amendment. Jefferson's ue of "Creator" instead of "God" is a reflection of him as a deist and that all religions have a creation myth, so for the Ancient Greeks that would be the titan Prometheus.

Jefferson was a Christian and he said so himself. But what's your point? You think he'd object to a monument with religious sentiments on public property? Can you back that up?

[GePap]

How are any of the example you noted one of the ten commandments being displayed in a court-room?

He was known as the "ten commandments judge". The constituents knew full well what is views on that subject were.

Did he state in his campaing that he would enact a monument to the etn commandments in the courtroom and then fight the fed over it? If not, he is not doing what he was elected to do, period.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by The diplomat
If the 10 Commandments are unsconstitutional because they are religious, then answer me this:

How come Congress called for a national day of thanksgiving to God when the Constitution was passed?

"God" was nondenominational, and it did not invoke a specific religious creed, which the Ten Commandments undeniably are.

How come President Washington repeatedly mnade reference to God during his speeches?

Gee, since this has nothing to do with leaders making speeches...I have to wonder at the relevance. Officials are perfectly free to profess their belief, as has been stated time and again. They aren't allowed, however, to erect monuments to their beliefs on public property. This is a big no-brainer you seem to keep dodging.

How come President Lincoln enacted a National day of Prayer and thanksgiving to God during the Civil War?

Presidents issue such proclamations (again, his was non-denominational) for an abundance of reasons, but since they don't carry any legal authority, it's a moot point. It is far different than enshrining specific religious doctrines in a government building.

How come the Senate opens with prayer with a protestant chaplain?

The Senate rotates between all kinds of denominations for the prayer. They've used protestants, catholics, Native Americans, buddhists, etc. It does NOT use the prayer as an endorsement of any one faith, and in no way does it have any moral authority over the actions of the Senators (obviously).

The truth is that the 1st Amendment never meant that government should be 100% secular. It simply says that government cannot legislate religion.

No, as SCOTUS has ruled, it also prohibits specific relgious doctrine from being enshrined in public spaces, as the Ten Commandments clearly are. You're confusing individuals in the government being allowed to profess their religion with a government official misusing his position of authority to impose a specific dogma on the public.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Berzerker
Jefferson was a Christian and he said so himself. But what's your point? You think he'd object to a monument with religious sentiments on public property? Can you back that up?

Jefferson was not a Christian, he was a Deist, and he said that so himself, even writing the "Deist Bible." He believed Jesus was a great philosopher, but did not believe any of the metaphysical claims about him whatsoever.

[Odin]

Originally posted by Berzerker
Odin -

You mean your opinion about how he'd feel?



Jefferson was a Christian and he said so himself. But what's your point? You think he'd object to a monument with religious sentiments on public property? Can you back that up?

He wasn't a Christian, he was a Deist, a person who belives that the diety is only a creator of the universe, not of all that other goop. He was a strong supporter of seperation of church and state. I know a lot more about him then you do. I admire him because we both have ADHD, and we are both liberals. I have reseached him a lot so STFU!

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by The diplomat
If the people of Alabama want the 10 Commandments displayed, then removing them is a clear violation of "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" because it prevents them from exercising their religion as they see fit!

If they can demonstrate that erecting religious monuments in state buildings is an essential and mandated part of their religious practices, then they have an argument on a balancing issue between the Establishment Clause and Free Exercise clause.

[Odin]

Boris you took my line!

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Odin
Boris you took my line!

Then don't be so slow.

For the record, saying things like "I know a lot more about him then you do" is a pretty obvious logical fallacy is just setting yourself up for getting burned...

[Berzerker]

MtG -

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


Do you have a reading comprehension problem?

Yeah, the "chunk of stone" just walked itself into the ****ing building all on it's own, and Moore had nothing to do with that.

He doesn't run the building as the senior officer of the court, he has no authority over state employees, that's why the other eight justices of the Alabama Supreme Court entered an order specifically overriding his previous directives.

What state employee was directed by Moore to bring the stone in? What state employee was directed to place the stone? Where is this ruling by the other justices where they say the monument must be removed because a state employee was asked to help place the monument and why did they wait so long - ~ 2 years? Why did the legal proceedings over removing the stone begin with a lawsuit filed by others when according to you, the other justices wanted it removed because he used state employees? The stone was carved and placed by private contractors several hours after the day's business. While ignoring my refutation of most of your arguments (yeah I know, you couldn't be bothered and I'm sure it's all my fault), you decided to pick that bit out - poor choice. You're making stuff up and insults won't cover your tracks...

[Berzerker]

Odin & Boris -

He wasn't a Christian, he was a Deist, a person who belives that the diety is only a creator of the universe, not of all that other goop. He was a strong supporter of seperation of church and state. I know a lot more about him then you do. I admire him because we both have ADHD, and we are both liberals. I have reseached him a lot so STFU!

Wrong, Jefferson described himself as a "primitive Christian", so apparently you didn't research him enough.

[Berzerker]

For the record, saying things like "I know a lot more about him then you do" is a pretty obvious logical fallacy is just setting yourself up for getting burned...

Odin gets

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Berzerker
Odin & Boris -

Wrong, Jefferson described himself as a "primitive Christian", so apparently you didn't research him enough.

No, that's not what he said:

"To the corruptions of Christianity I am, indeed, opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian in the only sense in which he wished anyone to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines in preference of all others"

In other words: Not a metaphysical belief in Christianity, but a philosophical belief in what Jesus taught. That's why he removed all the supernatural occurances from his bible. He categorically did NOT ascribe to the belief that Jesus was divine:

From Thomas Jefferson’s Bible:
“The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.”