Power outage problem, de-regulation, related issues... MY THOUGHTS!

[Berzerker]

Leo -

If you think that your town could be a better federal government than the federal government, secede. Just don't pretend that government is what ails you.

Funny comment in a thread about how a government created
monopoly caused a serious ailment.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Re: Power outage problem, de-regulation, related issues... MY THOUGHTS!

Originally posted by Sava
Discuss

I'm glad you put the disclaimer in about "your thoughts" since your factual knowledge and technical understanding of wholesale generation and transmission issues is so deficient, and I really don't want to do another thread on the subject, as people normally pay me for my expertise.

[Berzerker]

On a sidenote, I think it's curious how these debacles have occured in the most liberal parts of the country. Hmm...

[Berzerker]

I'm glad you put the disclaimer in about "your thoughts" since your factual knowledge and technical understanding of wholesale generation and transmission issues is so deficient, and I really don't want to do another thread on the subject, as people normally pay me for my expertise.

Thank God you aren't here to punch holes in me.

[St Leo]

Funny comment in a thread about how a government created monopoly caused a serious ailment.

You misspelled "deregulation".

[Sava]

Allowing the marketplace to determine who provides energy and at what cost is not the same as "trusting" corporate America to do anything. If anyone, including a corporation, doesn't honor it's contract, they get sued. I'm still waiting for you to identify the specific regulation that was eliminated to create these regional grids.

Sure, after you name ONE SPECIFIC regulation and why it should be erased.

I'm glad you put the disclaimer in about "your thoughts" since your factual knowledge and technical understanding of wholesale generation and transmission issues is so deficient, and I really don't want to do another thread on the subject, as people normally pay me for my expertise.

okay Mr fricking Wizard...

[mrmitchell]

I'm going to go ahead and give my 2 cents without reading the thread.

Power production decentralisation.

You see, power plants have reached the top end of the line. They're really stuck, centralised power plants can only pump out more power by getting bigger. The largest coal-burning furnaces are about 13 stories high. Nuclear power, often trumpeted as a "solution", produces increased terrorist threat, increased chance of major catastrophe, AND thousands of barrels of glowing sludge that will remain carcinogenic for up to 10,000 years. There is no foreseeable breakthrough in these technologies that will increase their production without increasing their sheer cost.

Solar power plants are expensive and unmaintanable for right now, but they are constantly getting better. Solar panels today can kick five-year-old panel's asses. You can't say the same thing about a coal burner or a nuclear rod. Supposing we actually gave solar research decent funding, centralised solar plants would be a reality in 5 years.

But they'd eventually bump into the same problem. Every technology meets its limit SOMEWHERE. Thus, the better thing to do is to change the system.

On television there were some electricity experts babbling on about how our lines are outdated, and we need more higher voltage ones. This is not changing the system, this is fixing it. In five to twenty years, we'll be having massive blackouts like this one, regardless of how many high-voltage lines we put up.

Thus, what we need to do is change the system. The most likely change as of now (aside from living in caves) is the idea of decentralised power production. Every building outfitted with solar panels and/or hydrogen-electricity generators or whatever the future brings us. This helps the building produce its own power. If the building uses more power than it produces, it's still hooked up to a central grid so it can buy power off of plants and/or other buildings. If the building produces more power than it uses, it's still hooked up to a central grid so it can sell power back to the utility.

Within a decade, given proper funding, solar panels and other super-future production methods will probably be able to support the load for a house and more, and be cheaper. The secondary bottleneck in this concern (and important for if we go the change or fix route) is, indeed, the distribution system.

Power lines suck. Most of them in the United States are cheap, old wires that can barely transmit load. They can and do lose power during travel, and lots of electricitiy is wasted moving from a new 60bagillionwatts plant to a line that can hold maybe a few kilos. (Hyperbole is the king of convincing, mind you.)

Also, those goddamned birds need to quit using power poles and lines to sit and build nests.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Democracy is good.

If we had true 'Democracy', homosexuality would still be a crime today. Without any 'rights of the minority' no homosexual activists would ever be heard and outdated thinking would continue. Think about that for a second.

I'm sure EVERY minority is glad that the US has never had a true democracy.

If you think that your town could be a better federal government than the federal government, secede. Just don't pretend that government is what ails you.

Government is better when it is more connected to the people. Local government is the most connected, therefore it is better . Certain localities join together for bigger things. These larger governmental entities should do the things that the private sector or the localities cannot do.

[St Leo]

Okay, let's say you live in the town of Bilboton with 2k fellow sufferers of the rural lifestyle. How in Cthulhu's name would you switch from being supplied by powerplant company A to being supplied by powerplant company B? How would the wiring work?

Would you ever be in enough discomfort due to fleecing to even bother?

Also, these powerplant companies sound RIAA-sized. What would prevent them from conspiring to keep prices at the same unfair level for the benefit of their PHBs?

Food delivery trucks can share the same highway. Electricity can't share the same wire.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Okay, let's say you live in the town of Bilboton with 2k fellow sufferers of the rural lifestyle. How in Cthulhu's name would you switch from being supplied by powerplant company A to being supplied by powerplant company B? How would the wiring work?

Well, you'd get the town to switch. If you can come up with a better provider and can get out of your energy contract, you can sway the council to go with the other dudes. Your elected represenatives would decide which way to go, and would moderate any rash changes.

If you really were unhappy with service of the town and the rest of your idiot neighbors weren't, then you could go solar power and end up getting paid for putting money back into the grid (as some people do ).

Also, these powerplant companies sound RIAA-sized. What would prevent them from conspiring to keep prices at the same unfair level for the benefit of their PHBs?

Anti-trust laws .

[mrmitchell]

Utilities lobbies are already powerful. They could crush any antitrust law they wanted to, probably.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Utilities lobbies are already powerful. They could crush any antitrust law they wanted to, probably.

Because AT&T wasn't powerful or anything?

[mrmitchell]

Er...uh...neocon! *Flings dung at Imran and leaves in disgust*

[Imran Siddiqui]

If the energy generation companies conspire to fix prices, they WILL be slapped down. It isn't like the Justice Department isn't watching.. they, of course, are. They wait for their oppertunities to strike... and especially if they can find any evidence of collusion, they are right there.

[JohnT]

Originally posted by Sava
Adam Smith: I agree with the general notion that deregulation can be beneficial in theory.

Sava, he's showing you demonstrable fact. Those numbers he quoted weren't projections, but historical data. To call it theory is to ignore the substance of the post.