Power outage problem, de-regulation, related issues... MY THOUGHTS!

[Imran Siddiqui]

Sorry, but WE control the government. Sure, it's one entity, but an entity controlled and representative of the people.

And I don't like being subject to a tyranny of the majority... I'm sure many don't.

Because Democracy = Accountability. Corporations = no accountability. Capitalism gives consumers limited opprotunity to hold business accountable. By not buying products or services. But when you take away that option (by having an essential service in private hands) that company has no accountability whatsoever.

What BS. Essential service in private hands results in no accountability? Food production is an essential service, and last I checked it was in private hands. Companies have accountability because if they don't do a good job, they get canned by someone that CAN do it better. What does a government agency have? Sure the guy at the top wants to keep his job, but the people in the middle ain't in any trouble. They'll keep their jobs no matter how much they **** up (and you have to work in government to really appreciate this).

And deregulation won't do this. Unless you want 10 different sets of power lines running to your house.

Do you deliberately not read, so you can make dumb points? WHO IS TALKING ABOUT LOCAL DEREGULATION?! We are talking about energy PRODUCTION! This does not in any way, shape, or form require more than 1 power line to your house.

If they don't do a good job, the town can merely turn to another power generator to supply energy.

I'm sorry you don't have faith in America, Imran.

I'm sorry... YOU don't have faith in America. I think Americans CAN have efficient private services .

[Sava]

And I don't like being subject to a tyranny of the majority... I'm sure many don't.

So you are a proponent of a monarchy?

I'm sorry... YOU don't have faith in America. I think Americans CAN have efficient private services

nah, you have proven by your own word that you have no faith in the people... the majority of hard working Americans that have made this country great. It's obvious you represent the exploitive elite... or the "private sector".

[Verto]

Do you deliberately not read, so you can make dumb points?

Is there any other way to do it?

[Berzerker]

Sava -

Do you have any facts to support your assertion that environmentalists caused the Energy Crisis?

Hell Sava, you just posted one fact, Houston Natural Gas. I keep asking you why California had to go outside the state and deal with Enron but my question and the obvious answer isn't sinking in. California wasn't keeping pace with growing energy demands and we know why that happened - "environmentalists" successfully shut down Califormia's nuclear industry and scream bloody murder anytime offshore drilling is proposed.

What dodge?

You didn't answer my question.

So laws against murder cause murders? Laws against theft create theft? Sorry Berzerker, that bird doesn't fly.

Those laws don't create massive black markets, the massive black market in drugs created by prohibition creates more crime than would exist if drugs were legal just as was the case with alcohol prohibition. Nice analogy there, Sava.

Can you name some of the energy regulations that you want erased from legislation? Name the regulations, explain what they do, and we can debate them individually. My gut tells me you don't have a clue about what the regulations actually regulate.

I want them all erased, I could care less what names politicians gave them. Now, I do know what one regulation did - it eliminated the construction of new nuclear plants in California.

The regional grids were created BY deregulation Berz...

Show us the actual regulation that was eliminated to create these regional grids.

Odin -

That proves what I thought, Berz is pulling crap out of his ass.

I said the regional grids were created by government regulation and Sava says they were created by "de-regulation", i.e., the elimination of a regulation. Wanna bet which of us is right? How about this, the loser starts a thread titled "Odin is a gullible sap"?

[GePap]

Tp the rest of the thread..blah, blah blah (which means I really do not care for what has been said)

This is the second blackout in my neighborhood in 4 years (at least this time it wasn;t a local problem): they really need to fix up the transmition systems in this damn grid. NIMBY's must also die: damn those yocals who don;t want a substation: tough luck, we need a substation, we build a substation.

And also, no more of these stupid campaings to shut down perfectly good nuclear plants!

[Berzerker]

Sava -

Sorry, but WE control the government.

Then we've found the culprit - YOU!

[Berzerker]

And also, no more of these stupid campaings to shut down perfectly good nuclear plants!

I used to work in that industry so I know what happened in California.

[Sava]

Those laws don't create massive black markets, the massive black market in drugs created by prohibition creates more crime than would exist if drugs were legal just as was the case with alcohol prohibition. Nice analogy there, Sava.

So government regulations are creating a black market for electricity? I BETTER HIDE MY MOONSHINE NUCLEAR PLANT!!

Then we've found the culprit - YOU!

only in my dreams.

[Berzerker]

So government regulations are creating a black market for electricity? I BETTER HIDE MY MOONSHINE NUCLEAR PLANT!!

Where did I say that? Try to keep track, I said you are blaming the marketplace for problems created by government (how anyone can deny government doesn't control the energy industry is hilarious) just like drug war pushers blame drugs for the problems created by government.

[Odin]

Originally posted by GePap
And also, no more of these stupid campaings to shut down perfectly good nuclear plants!

I don't know why my fellow tree huggers are worried about another Cheyrnoble or 3-mile island. They will happen MORE often when not regulated becuase of cost-cutting.

[Sava]

Where did I say that? Try to keep track, I said you are blaming the marketplace for problems created by government (how anyone can deny government doesn't control the energy industry is hilarious) just like drug war pushers blame drugs for the problems created by government.

I'm sorry Berz, but if all government regulations were erased, it would be the early 20th century all over again. Perhaps you need to learn more about that era before you criticize the regulations that were created because of the abuses. Unless of course you believe corporate America can be trusted...

[Elok]

Maybe you guys should calm down and stop using sarcasm so much. Half your posts seem to be dedicated to deciphering each others' wisecracks. That ain't right.
Just a suggestion.

[Sava]

Maybe you guys should calm down and stop using sarcasm so much. Half your posts seem to be dedicated to deciphering each others' wisecracks. That ain't right.
Just a suggestion.

what little rational thought this thread had, left a long time ago...

[St Leo]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui And I don't like being subject to a tyranny of the majority... I'm sure many don't.

Go back to USSR, commie! Democracy is good.

Do you deliberately not read, so you can make dumb points? WHO IS TALKING ABOUT LOCAL DEREGULATION?! We are talking about energy PRODUCTION! This does not in any way, shape, or form require more than 1 power line to your house.

If they don't do a good job, the town can merely turn to another power generator to supply energy.

Whoa! The town? Whatever happenned to individualism? Whatever happenned to "tyranny of the majority"?

If you think that your town could be a better federal government than the federal government, secede. Just don't pretend that government is what ails you.

[Berzerker]

Sava -

I'm sorry Berz, but if all government regulations were erased, it would be the early 20th century all over again. Perhaps you need to learn more about that era before you criticize the regulations that were created because of the abuses. Unless of course you believe corporate America can be trusted...

Allowing the marketplace to determine who provides energy and at what cost is not the same as "trusting" corporate America to do anything. If anyone, including a corporation, doesn't honor it's contract, they get sued. I'm still waiting for you to identify the specific regulation that was eliminated to create these regional grids.

Odin -

I don't know why my fellow tree huggers are worried about another Cheyrnoble or 3-mile island. They will happen MORE often when not regulated becuase of cost-cutting.

That's funny, Chernobyl occured in a communist country and 3-Mile Island, a regulated plant, emitted so little radiation that there still is no evidence of harm to the neighboring communities. You have no idea how much is wasted on some of these regulations, I do. Just replacing a friggin light bulb takes 3 or 4 people each assigned a specific task because of regulations, which reminds me of the question: how many nuclear plant workers following government regulations does it take to screw in a light bulb? Answer: ask the local union.