Power outage problem, de-regulation, related issues... MY THOUGHTS!

[Odin]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Oh great... here comes Tweedle-dum .

Oerdin, I agree with you on the "if it ain't broke" thing, but it is broke.

[Imran Siddiqui]

The regional grids were created BY deregulation

Sava, they actually were set up by the government. It was a regulation that was part of deregulation. You don't think the private companies decided to help each other out like that, do you?

[Odin]

Originally posted by Sava
The regional grids were created BY deregulation Berz...

That proves what I thought, Berz is pulling crap out of his ass.

[Odin]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Sava, they actually were set up by the government. It was a regulation that was part of deregulation. You don't think the private companies decided to help each other out like that, do you?

That is an oxymoron.

[Sava]

My philosophy is "if it ain't broke don't fix it".

As opposed to Imran's "if it ain't broke, let's break it!" philosophy.

Sava, you continually ignore that no one has deregulated the local energy provider. In fact that is secured, usually, by government monopoly. Deregulation comes into play in the energy generation! And smaller plants can compete... it ain't just the big boys anymore.

Sorry Imran, but I want ONE entity controlling generation and distribution. I don't want a middleman inflating prices for the sake of inflating profits. I'm a firm believer that it only takes so much money to do something. I want one entity (I don't care if it's government-run or government regulated) to generate electricity and distribute it. No corporate bonuses, no fatcats wasting money. I want workers to get fair pay, and a DEMOCRATICALLY elected official to oversee the system.

You believe in Democracy right? I mean, you wouldn't want the US to become an authoritarian entity. So why do you want such entities in charge of energy production? These people aren't accountable to anyone, and they have no incentive to provide cost-effective services to consumers. Their primary goal is PROFIT! I'm sorry, call me a dirty, stupid, pinko, liberal, commie bastard... but I feel that a power provider's primary goal should be to provide a reliable, efficient, and cost-effective service. But hey, that's just me.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

The regional grids were created BY deregulation

Sava, they actually were set up by the government. It was a regulation that was part of deregulation. You don't think the private companies decided to help each other out like that, do you?

well duh, now you are just being silly... of course deregulation is a regulation...

[Berzerker]

Sava -

Imran... utilities were once deregulated... it was called the 19th century. Trusts and robber barons exploited people. The middle class didn't exist. Sorry, but America has become the greatest nation in the world WITH regulated business.

19th century America was largely agrarian. Just how do you define "middle class"? I imagine most people in 19th century America were doing better than just about any other population in the world and that was when we had relatively free markets and most of the world didn't - quite an achievement for a nation barely a century old.

The middle class as it exists today wouldn't exist if progressives didn't enact legislation that evened the playing field and allowed the American people to build wealth.

And I'd say industrialisation was the catalyst, not socialism.

And I will oppose anyone who wishes to destroy these rules and foundations that made America the greatest country in the world just for the sake of corporate profits.

You have nothing, you CRIMINAL! You want to destroy America!!!

Let me quote Teddy Roosevelt:

Old Teddy "the roughrider" Roosevelt was a liar, so quote away. San Juan Hill my a$$!

Btw, how does that quote prove the marketplace caused this blackout or California's woes? Seems like more proof we don't have free markets...

[Imran Siddiqui]

As opposed to Imran's "if it ain't broke, let's break it!" philosophy.

No, my "even if it ain't broke, make it better" philosophy . Unlike you I'm not content to stagnate.

Sorry Imran, but I want ONE entity controlling generation and distribution.

And I don't! I don't want some inefficient, bloated, unresponsive, and untouchable government entity controlling everything. What happens if they **** up? Ooops, too bad, can't get rid of them because they are the only thing out there.

You believe in Democracy right? I mean, you wouldn't want the US to become an authoritarian entity. So why do you want such entities in charge of energy production?

You believe in Democracy right? I mean, you wouldn't want the US to be ruled by one party and have no choice if they mess up? So why would you want one entity in charge of energy production?

I don't care that their primary goal is profit, that's a good thing. As you've said before, you like capitalism. It is BECAUSE they are in it for profit, that you get more efficient energy generation. If there is absolutely no chance of competition, why would the US Energy company give two ****s about what they were doing?

I'd rather have the prospect of better, more efficient service, with some reason to improve, rather than a bloated, non-caring, no-incentive behemoth which controls everything.

As the telephone industry has shown, deregulation can work wonders in reducing prices and increasing services, while government monopolies like Amtrack stagnate and squander money.

[Imran Siddiqui]

well duh, now you are just being silly... of course deregulation is a regulation...

Are you slow or something? When the government deregulated it also put a REGULATION that these deregulated power providers HAD to join power grids. Like I asked, why would they help their competitors if they didn't have to?

[Sava]

And I don't! I don't want some inefficient, bloated, unresponsive, and untouchable government entity controlling everything. What happens if they **** up? Ooops, too bad, can't get rid of them because they are the only thing out there.

You are describing a corporation. In a Democracy, we hold elections to replace people if they aren't doing a good job.

[Imran Siddiqui]

You are describing a corporation.

No, I'm describing a government corporation . Most private corporations are efficient and responsive to customers, and if they aren't then I should be able to toss them aside and pick someone else.

In a Democracy, we hold elections to replace people if they aren't doing a good job.

So if I don't think you are doing a good job at your workplace, I should be able to hold an election to kick you out? I'm sure your union would LOVE that .

[Sava]

You believe in Democracy right? I mean, you wouldn't want the US to be ruled by one party and have no choice if they mess up? So why would you want one entity in charge of energy production?

Sorry, but WE control the government. Sure, it's one entity, but an entity controlled and representative of the people.

It is BECAUSE they are in it for profit, that you get more efficient energy generation. If there is absolutely no chance of competition, why would the US Energy company give two ****s about what they were doing?

Because Democracy = Accountability. Corporations = no accountability. Capitalism gives consumers limited opprotunity to hold business accountable. By not buying products or services. But when you take away that option (by having an essential service in private hands) that company has no accountability whatsoever.

I'd rather have the prospect of better, more efficient service, with some reason to improve, rather than a bloated, non-caring, no-incentive behemoth which controls everything.

And deregulation won't do this. Unless you want 10 different sets of power lines running to your house. Frankly, I just need 1. And what happens to a corporation when they know their demand is never going to go away? They lose their incentive to provide an efficient service. You seem to have this warped idea about business Imran. You believe business cares about it's consumers. Newsflash. They don't.

In fact, the "incentive" created by the possibility of profit, is an incentive to engage in unethical accounting practices, an incentive to cut quality costs, to cut jobs... in practice, deregulation lowers quality, lowers reliability, and since it is an essential service, there is no way consumers can BOYCOTT or take their business elsewhere.


I'm sorry you don't have faith in America, Imran. But I do. I think Americans CAN have efficient government services. The problem is we have to get rid of corporate funded bureaucrats that stand in the way of this goal.

[Odin]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
So if I don't think you are doing a good job at your workplace, I should be able to hold an election to kick you out? I'm sure your union would LOVE that .

Modern unions are a joke. They were once good, but are now they give labor a bad name.

BTW, If Teddy was around today he would be a progressive democrat.

Irman, Corporations arn't responsible to customers, they are only responible for thier pockets. Get out of Libertarian Lala Land.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
No, I'm describing a government corporation . Most private corporations are efficient and responsive to customers, and if they aren't then I should be able to toss them aside and pick someone else.

No, you described every kind of corporation. And your second comment is exactly the problem. People can't just toss the power company aside. In Chicago, we have ComEd. They suck. And I don't have any other choices. Why the hell would I want two ComEd's? Two bloated, inefficient, greedy corporations who care more about profits than giving me reliable power...

So if I don't think you are doing a good job at your workplace, I should be able to hold an election to kick you out?

Yes. People should be held accountable. And since consumers can't let their dollars hold power companies responsible, the government should use the democratic process to do so.

I'm sure your union would LOVE that .

what union? I am on the fence in terms of labor unions.

[Odin]

Originally posted by Sava
I'm sorry you don't have faith in America, Imran. But I do. I think Americans CAN have efficient government services. The problem is we have to get rid of corporate funded bureaucrats that stand in the way of this goal.