China, Not our Friend.

[Q Classic]

oh, i wouldn't expect them to actually come here and make the us do anything. nor would i flee to china.

but they could just as easily threaten the united states and exert strong pressures and influence in order to stop any potential trouble. now, whether they would actually do this or not is another question entirely.

that, i'd have to say is unlikely, but so is american turning xenophobic and trying to eliminate asians. after all, in the coming years, we'll be tightly integrated into the financial and intellectual infrastructure, so...

[mindseye]

The last line of this absurd article says it all:

Larry M. Wortzel is vice president for foreign policy and defense studies at The Heritage Foundation

As Lord Merciless pointed out, it's wee bit silly to get all flustered over potential Chinese space-based strategies when the US currently maintains hundreds of MIRVed warheads 30 minutes away from incinerating the PRC. Is it really the US who should be worrying here? Compare the military histories of the US and the PRC and tell me which one is more likely to be an aggressor.

Mr. Wortzel also failed to mention that China is a nation that has been repeatedly invaded and occupied by foreign powers (including the US) over the last 150 years. History has a little lesson there for you, Defiant. Read up on it.

Many of their politicians see the United States as their one true enemy

Oh, really? Got any names for these shadowy politicians? I didn’t think so. While there certainly are conservative hardheads in the government, unlike the US they aren’t currently running the country. I don't know of any high profile Chinese leaders who are as remotely as terrifying as Donald Rumsfeld or **** Cheney.

It's ludicrous to think our countries can or will get along.

Thank heavens most Chinese don’t seem to agree with drivel like this.

Does China really have any friends?

Does China really have any enemies?

He11, I bet since Dubya and company took office, the PRC probably has more friends than the US! At least China is on very cordial terms with France and Germany!

On the other hand, a little less communism

A little less? I didn’t know there was any left at this point!

China is not our friend, nor has it been our friend since 1949. One day you boys under 40 will fine out. I may be gone when it happen, but it will happen. The Chinese do not think like western man

Are you saying that anyone who does not think like "the western man" must not be our friend? That's what it sounds like you are implying. Do you speak Chinese? Is it possible that the reason you don't understand them is because you don't speak their language? It's richly ironic that most Chinese actually have a pretty favorable attitude towards Americans.

and elijah, i do find it amusing that you like china, when it has one of (if not the) worst human rights records on the planet.

Where were you when someone posted the figures recently showing that the rate of capital punishment in China is not that much higher than that of Texas! China has problems, but you have to remember that it aso has 1/4 of the world's population. When you start to look at the abuses on a per capita level, the perspective changes.

Having spent years living amongst chinese people I agree completely with Joseph. They dont think like we do. Why should they?

Are you also implying that anyone who thinks differently is ... our enemy? By the way, out of curiousity, where did you live in China, and when did you live here?

You dont have to live there though, one only needs to look at China's history to see that fact.

When you refer to China's history, are you talking about pre- or post-Mao?

[mindseye]

China could care less about you, unless you are a member of the their Communist Party.

That's just flat-out stupid-wrong.

Forgive me, but those of us who actually live in China sometimes get weary of our bretheren back home who think China is some sort of oppressive police state. You guys are stuck in a Cultural Revolution time-warp.

Factoring out cultural factors like food, my life here in Shanghai is not all that different than my life in San Francisco - except that it's much safer here (a fact conveniently forgotten when talk turns to "human rights").

[Joseph]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by mindseye
The last line of this absurd article says it all:

Larry M. Wortzel is vice president for foreign policy and defense studies at The Heritage Foundation

As Lord Merciless pointed out, it's wee bit silly to get all flustered over potential Chinese space-based strategies when the US currently maintains hundreds of MIRVed warheads 30 minutes away from incinerating the PRC. Is it really the US who should be worrying here? Compare the military histories of the US and the PRC and tell me which one is more likely to be an aggressor.

Mr. Wortzel also failed to mention that China is a nation that has been repeatedly invaded and occupied by foreign powers (including the US) over the last 150 years. History has a little lesson there for you, Defiant. Read up on it.

Many of their politicians see the United States as their one true enemy

Oh, really? Got any names for these shadowy politicians? I didn’t think so. While there certainly are conservative hardheads in the government, unlike the US they aren’t currently running the country. I don't know of any high profile Chinese leaders who are as remotely as terrifying as Donald Rumsfeld or **** Cheney.

It's ludicrous to think our countries can or will get along.

Thank heavens most Chinese don’t seem to agree with drivel like this.[/QUOTEMost Chinese are not running the Gov.

Does China really have any friends?

Does China really have any enemies?

yes. It is the USA

He11, I bet since Dubya and company took office, the PRC probably has more friends than the US! At least China is on very cordial terms with France and Germany!

On the other hand, a little less communism

A little less? I didn’t know there was any left at this point!

You must be joking right? Step on the corner and say something that the Gov. should or should not do and see if there are any Commie left.

China is not our friend, nor has it been our friend since 1949. One day you boys under 40 will fine out. I may be gone when it happen, but it will happen. The Chinese do not think like western man

Are you saying that anyone who does not think like "the western man" must not be our friend? That's what it sounds like you are implying. Do you speak Chinese? Is it possible that the reason you don't understand them is because you don't speak their language? It's richly ironic that most Chinese actually have a pretty favorable attitude towards Americans.

I have been married to one for 38 years 9 mos. and 4 days, you tell me.

and elijah, i do find it amusing that you like china, when it has one of (if not the) worst human rights records on the planet.

Where were you when someone posted the figures recently showing that the rate of capital punishment in China is not that much higher than that of Texas! China has problems, but you have to remember that it aso has 1/4 of the world's population. When you start to look at the abuses on a per capita level, the perspective changes.

Having spent years living amongst chinese people I agree completely with Joseph. They dont think like we do. Why should they?

Are you also implying that anyone who thinks differently is ... our enemy? By the way, out of curiousity, where did you live in China, and when did you live here?

You dont have to live there though, one only needs to look at China's history to see that fact.

When you refer to China's history, are you talking about pre- or post-Mao?

Tell the Gov they cannot have Taiwan.
BTW Taiwan was never their to begain with. Read Taiwan history if you want.

[Urban Ranger]

US conservatives have always needed a boogeyman. Before, it was the USSR. Now, it's the PRC. They need a reason to keep the $$$ going into the military complex.

Even GWB has more sense than some posters on here. After sorta implied China was an enemy when he inaugurated, he quickly made an about-turn, within the first 180 days IIRC. Then bin Laden came along, sudden there's a common enemy. You can't take out terrorists with satellite weapons.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Joseph
BTW Taiwan was never their to begain with. Read Taiwan history if you want.

You want to tell me some Chinese history that I don't know?

[mindseye]

Does China really have any enemies?

yes. It is the USA

Oh, the same USA which counts China as it's #4 (about to replace Japan as #3) largest trading partner? That USA? Do you really think the big corporate boys (who are more powerful than ever during the current American administration) would allow such a lucrative relationship to go down the tubes?

You must be joking right? Step on the corner and say something that the Gov. should or should not do and see if there are any Commie left.

No joke. Sorry, but you seem to be a little behind the times. These days there are front page stories of major (Chinese mainland) newspapers that are critical of the government. Maybe you can ask your wife about it.

I have been married to one for 38 years 9 mos. and 4 days, you tell me.

Sorry, that doesn’t answer the question. Again: are you saying that anyone who doesn’t think like "the western man" is our enemy? If not, what where you saying? Or are you going to dodge the question again.

Read Taiwan history if you want.

Maybe you should read up on current cross-straits relations. Hint: there is a new Chinese president, goes by the name of Hu.

[Defiant]

"Mr. Wortzel also failed to mention that China is a nation that has been repeatedly invaded and occupied by foreign powers (including the US) over the last 150 years. History has a little lesson there for you, Defiant. Read up on it."

Give me a history lesson then, when was the last time they were considered a world power and how did they do then, what was the Ming Dynasty about?
History is one thing, but you really need to keep up with current events. China is #4 as you say in economic power(trading partner) and they want to be #1, wouldn't you. If you have it as you think, that's exactly how they want you to think, while secretly, silently gaining power, until it is too late to hinder their progress. WE need to look out for #1, ourselves, nobody else is.

BTW, Russia was another country invaded repeatedly, France and Germany come to mind and look what they did to stop it from happening again.

[Harry Seldon]

see, the way i see it, if there's anything bad in the us and it turns xenophobic against us slanty-eyes, we'll be having a resonably strong nation stand up for us.

Well, who'll stand up for te round-eyes when China starts adding provinces to the "Land of Heaven?"

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by mindseye
Compare the military histories of the US and the PRC and tell me which one is more likely to be an aggressor

Mr. Wortzel also failed to mention that China is a nation that has been repeatedly invaded and occupied by foreign powers (including the US) over the last 150 years. History has a little lesson there for you, Defiant. Read up on it.

Since shortly after the end of WW2 when China became a regional power, China has shown no reluctance to involving itself militarily whenever and wherever it can. While China was a regional power such actions were not a direct threat to the USA, but China is clearly working toward developing ICBM's and becoming a military superpower. IMO, we dont need another cold war such as we had in the 70's. We came close to war on a number of occasions over stupid ****, we dont need that happening again.

Oh, really? Got any names for these shadowy politicians? I didn’t think so. While there certainly are conservative hardheads in the government, unlike the US they aren’t currently running the country. I don't know of any high profile Chinese leaders who are as remotely as terrifying as Donald Rumsfeld or **** Cheney.

Try counting the number of high ranking military and secret police in the highest echelons of government and communist party.

Are you also implying that anyone who thinks differently is ... our enemy?

No, quite the opposite. What I said was most americans dont understand the Chinese, or even think that they have different attitudes. American foreign policy in recent years (at least) has been hampered by the lack of american understanding of other cultures.

By the way, out of curiousity, where did you live in China, and when did you live here?

I didnt say I lived in China, I said I lived amongst chinese people (in Vancouver). The area where I grew up is at least 50% chinese, where many older people dont even speak english.

When you refer to China's history, are you talking about pre- or post-Mao?

The entirety of chinese history shows the cultural/attitudinal differences between China and the West.

[KrazyHorse]

China already has ICBMs. But not very many of them. 20, IIRC.

[Lord Merciless]

Originally posted by Defiant
"Mr. Wortzel also failed to mention that China is a nation that has been repeatedly invaded and occupied by foreign powers (including the US) over the last 150 years. History has a little lesson there for you, Defiant. Read up on it."

Give me a history lesson then, when was the last time they were considered a world power and how did they do then, what was the Ming Dynasty about?

Ming Dynasty went into a voluntary isolationism. They built a wall to keep invaders out and THEIR people in. They abolished any sea-going vessels under penalty of death. I fail to see any forms of aggression or expantionism here.

History is one thing, but you really need to keep up with current events. China is #4 as you say in economic power and they want to be #1, wouldn't you. If you have it as you think, that's exactly how they want you to think, while secretly, silently gaining power, until it is too late to hinder their progress. WE need to look out for #1, ourselves, nobody else is.

What do you want to do about it? Picking more enemies as if we don't have them enough?

If you want to make China our enemy publicly, Islamic fundies would be dancing on the streets from Morroco to Jakarta.

[Lord Merciless]

Originally posted by Harry Seldon

Well, who'll stand up for te round-eyes when China starts adding provinces to the "Land of Heaven?"

So my paranoid friend, do you know how powerful "round eyes" are compared to Chinese?

[Lord Merciless]

Originally posted by SpencerH


Since shortly after the end of WW2 when China became a regional power, China has shown no reluctance to involving itself militarily whenever and wherever it can. While China was a regional power such actions were not a direct threat to the USA, but China is clearly working toward developing ICBM's and becoming a military superpower. IMO, we dont need another cold war such as we had in the 70's. We came close to war on a number of occasions over stupid ****, we dont need that happening again.

China already has 30 ICBMs that can reach continental US, enough to incinerate all West Coast big cities and remove us from the #1 world power. If you don't want another Cold War, then do business with them.

[C0ckney]

Factoring out cultural factors like food, my life here in Shanghai is not all that different than my life in San Francisco - except that it's much safer here (a fact conveniently forgotten when talk turns to "human rights").

oh those pesky human rights eh, god wouldn't we all be so much better off if people just stopped whining about things like basic legal rights,forced abortions attempted state control of religion and torture and abuse in prisions. after all, if we did all these wonderful things then maybe a few less people would get mugged, and at the end of the day that's what matters, right mindseye?