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Will the EU unite europe into a single nation? If so, when?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by HershOstropoler


    Define "country".

    What is the latest SCOTUS case law on sovereignty of US states? For the EU, I suggest you read McCormick, Questioning Sovereignty.

    As for those who define the EU as a "trade area", get a basic text book about EU law. Then you may have a clue what you are talking about.

    And "nation" is an outdated concept.
    You DanS'sed it. Elaborate.
    Originally posted by Serb:Please, remind me, how exactly and when exactly, Russia bullied its neighbors?
    Originally posted by Ted Striker:Go Serb !
    Originally posted by Pekka:If it was possible to capture the essentials of Sepultura in a dildo, I'd attach it to a bicycle and ride it up your azzes.

    Comment

    • #32
      I did not edit that post.
      “Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)

      Comment

      • #33
        DanS'ed as in "too brief to understand".
        Originally posted by Serb:Please, remind me, how exactly and when exactly, Russia bullied its neighbors?
        Originally posted by Ted Striker:Go Serb !
        Originally posted by Pekka:If it was possible to capture the essentials of Sepultura in a dildo, I'd attach it to a bicycle and ride it up your azzes.

        Comment

        • #34
          Originally posted by Agathon


          Economic activity determines political activity. Haven't you ever read Marx?
          he was an idiot... any contemporary sociologist can tell you how flawed his 'theories' were
          "I bet Ikarus eats his own spunk..."
          - BLACKENED from America's Army: Operations
          Kramerman - Creator and Author of The Epic Tale of Navalon in the Civ III Stories Forum

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          • #35
            Saras:

            Ok, a little more:

            Sovereignty is a fluffy concept, but usually associated with "country". So is Idoha sovereign? Or Germany?

            The question for the EU is whether member states are still sovereign. The best description is split sovereignty.

            The EU is a federal structure, not a free trade area, not just a costums union, not just an economic union.

            Nation - nationalism and the nation state have seen their climax, wouldn't you agree?
            “Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)

            Comment

            • #36
              Originally posted by Ted Striker
              It will never happen, English are not going to join in the French-German Eurocom periphery

              The anti-US sentiment will simmer down when Bush is out of office and the global recession is over
              Bravo!
              "What is the Matrix?" -Neo
              "The Matrix is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth." -Morpheus [The Matrix]

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              • #37
                You have to understand this kind of discussion is NOT my strongest area, but:

                Originally posted by HershOstropoler
                Saras:

                Ok, a little more:

                Sovereignty is a fluffy concept, but usually associated with "country". So is Idoha sovereign? Or Germany?
                Idaho is not sovereign. It can't delcare war, make peace, annex Iowa. Germany, in theory, can.

                The question for the EU is whether member states are still sovereign. The best description is split sovereignty.

                The EU is a federal structure, not a free trade area, not just a costums union, not just an economic union.

                Nation - nationalism and the nation state have seen their climax, wouldn't you agree?
                IMO, EU is integrated economically, but not politically, at least not to the same degree. You have to have some political integration to run all the common things in the EU. I just wish someone threw the French out (hint - CAP )
                Originally posted by Serb:Please, remind me, how exactly and when exactly, Russia bullied its neighbors?
                Originally posted by Ted Striker:Go Serb !
                Originally posted by Pekka:If it was possible to capture the essentials of Sepultura in a dildo, I'd attach it to a bicycle and ride it up your azzes.

                Comment

                • #38
                  "It can't delcare war"

                  Ah, a little Schmitt.

                  "EU is integrated economically, but not politically, at least not to the same degree."

                  Depends. Don't let the Iraq squabbles blind you there. Eg the Cooperation in criminal law under title VI EUT is booming.
                  “Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)

                  Comment

                  • #39
                    Originally posted by HershOstropoler
                    "It can't delcare war"

                    Ah, a little Schmitt.

                    "EU is integrated economically, but not politically, at least not to the same degree."

                    Depends. Don't let the Iraq squabbles blind you there. Eg the Cooperation in criminal law under title VI EUT is booming.
                    Who's Schmitt?

                    What do you mean by cooperation in criminal law? Like everyone extradites everyone?
                    Originally posted by Serb:Please, remind me, how exactly and when exactly, Russia bullied its neighbors?
                    Originally posted by Ted Striker:Go Serb !
                    Originally posted by Pekka:If it was possible to capture the essentials of Sepultura in a dildo, I'd attach it to a bicycle and ride it up your azzes.

                    Comment

                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Sava
                      No... cultural and language differences are too great.
                      Greater than the differences between Utah and New York?

                      Comment

                      • #41
                        "Who's Schmitt?"

                        Carl Schmitt, german... well, who knows what he really was, but he wrote on the issue.

                        "What do you mean by cooperation in criminal law? Like everyone extradites everyone?"

                        That. And european arrest warrant. And Harmonization of material criminal law. And common rules on asset seizures. The Schengen Acquis.

                        http://www.europa.eu.int/eur-lex/en/lif/reg/en_register_1930.html


                        http://www.europa.eu.int/eur-lex/en/com/reg/en_register_1930.html
                        “Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)

                        Comment

                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Agathon
                          ... Give it another 40 years or so and we'll see.
                          **tsk, tsk** You should know better, Agathon. In 40 years time, most of the planet will be trembling in the dark shadow of the hyperpower known as China.

                          Gatekeeper
                          "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I'll die defending your right to say it." — Voltaire

                          "Wheresoever you go, go with all your heart." — Confucius

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by HershOstropoler
                            "What do you mean by cooperation in criminal law? Like everyone extradites everyone?"

                            That. And european arrest warrant. And Harmonization of material criminal law. And common rules on asset seizures. The Schengen Acquis.

                            http://www.europa.eu.int/eur-lex/en/lif/reg/en_register_1930.html


                            http://www.europa.eu.int/eur-lex/en/...ster_1930.html
                            We (as well as probably everyone) already extradite to US and Russian and a bunch of other places, and have bilateral treaties etc. EU takes it just one small step further, no?

                            We even try to score brownie points with France:

                            Yahoo Actualités : toute l'info en France et dans le monde
                            http://fr.news.yahoo.com/030808/5/3c8n2.html
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                            Officials are scrambling to draft a bilateral treaty to ship him out.
                            Originally posted by Serb:Please, remind me, how exactly and when exactly, Russia bullied its neighbors?
                            Originally posted by Ted Striker:Go Serb !
                            Originally posted by Pekka:If it was possible to capture the essentials of Sepultura in a dildo, I'd attach it to a bicycle and ride it up your azzes.

                            Comment

                            • #44
                              "Nation" is not a word with an absolute definition; what we mean by nation today is a historical construct, and not a very old one. It could change. So, it seems to me that you have the question backward. It's not, "will the EU be a single nation" but, instead, will large nations come to resemble the EU? Given the increase in regionalism and the Republican agenda of devolution in the US; given a similar regionalism in Canada; given China's experimentation with semi-autonomous zones like Shanghai and Hong Kong, it seems to me that the EU, whatever it is, may represent a future organizational model.
                              "I have as much authority as the pope. I just don't have as many people who believe it." — George Carlin

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Sava
                                I can guarantee you the Balkan states will not sign on. And a true EU would need all of Europe.
                                You mean you're living not in the true United States of America, because they don't cover all of America?

                                On topic: It will happen, but in small steps and it will take a very long time. It may begin with a loose confederation of just a few countries, let's call it core Europe. With the time, and over a large amount of political skirmishes and diskussions (I know thee, Europe), the bonds will tighten. Others will eventually join, even the Britons, although without doubt they will be the last and join kicking and screaming and only because they otherwise would be dwarfed and "milled" between Europe and America. Others, like the Balkan states, may decide not to join, so what? They'll be our Mexico then, no big deal. And if the Finns don't join, they will be our Canada.

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