Your Favorite President

[Sava]

I accept paypal...

[Imran Siddiqui]

Oh yeah, the closest the world came to nuclear annihilation

A better President would have realized it was no big deal, since we had missles on the northern Turkish coast pointed at the USSR. BOTH sides were into MAD, so it was just another deterrant. In fact, Krushchev only removed the missles when Kennedy promised to remove the nukes from Turkey (though after 6 months so it wouldn't seem like a deal ).

KENNEDY MADE IT A CRISIS! By going on TV like a damned fool, he made everyone go nuts. Any competant president would have gone through the back channels, find out what Krushchev wanted and made the deal. I tell ya if Nixon was in office, we'd never hear of a 'crisis', because it'd get done quietly.

And like I said again... is that it? That's the proof that Kennedy fought against communism? Getting the Soviets to remove missles from Cuba, which just about everyone would have done (just with more tact).

[Sava]

Fine, I'll use that argument against you. Anyone would have done what Reagan did, but a better president would have been smarter.

Gee, I love using outlandish hypothetical situations!!

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by MrFun
Too many people including those in the gay community, and including politicians like Ron refused to take any serious plan of action.

How is this Ron's fault again?

[Sava]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
How is this Ron's fault again?

Because MrFun needs a scapegoat.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Anyone would have done what Reagan did, but a better president would have been smarter.

Because Carter and Nixon and Ford did the same thing? Bull! What crisis did Reagan face where anyone else would have done the same... but better. He approached the USSR in a new way.

Kennedy, OTOH, dealt with a crisis in which it was obvious the course of action (if you ever read Foundation, it is akin to a Seldon Crisis, almost). And EVEN IF a president did not act to get missles out of Cuba, it wouldn't have mattered... except in an election. Which also reminds me, Kennedy lied, blatently, about the 'missile gap' as well. I thought you hated liars, Sava?

[mrmitchell]

TR bashers...he was, indeed, somewhat a warmonger. Then again, he also had vision, and introduced all sorts of domestic reforms. In addition to environmental commitment--the first President to even give a crap about it.

(The only other President from the era that stands out so much would be FDR.)

[Ramo]

Increased pressure on the Soviets by more pressing on them and building SDI streached the Soviet machine to the limit.

The Soviet response to the SDI was peanuts compared to the Soviet military budget. It really mattered very little. The Soviet Union collapsed ultimately because of Gorby.

Reagan really was another Kennedy in terms of foreign policy. He acted agressively and incompetently when facing a liberal Soviet leader, almost insuring his replacement by a hardliner. And who knows how much longer the USSR would've existed if a coup by the politburo against Gorby succeeded as well as the coup against Kruschev.

[Sava]

Reagam, OTOH, dealt with a crisis in which it was obvious the course of action.

beware when using such shallow arguments Imran, they can be turned against you.

[Imran Siddiqui]

The Soviet response to the SDI was peanuts compared to the Soviet military budget. It really mattered very little.

Then why did Gorby fear it so that his main request as Rekjavik and other disarmament conferences was for the Americans to stop SDI? Why did plenty of the former government officials in the former KGB say that SDI was the straw that broke the camel's back?

The Soviets KNEW they couldn't compete and KNEW they HAD to compete if the Americans went farther and farther along. That is why they were so concerned and always asked the Amis to stop doing it.

He acted agressively and incompetently when facing a liberal Soviet leader, almost insuring his replacement by a hardliner.

Gorby's election as Premier is almost solely because of Reagan. The Party believed it needed someone young and dynamic to lead the party instead of the old fogeys who were getting HAMMERED by Reagan. So they picked Gorby, even though he was a reformer. They needed someone to be able to stand up to Reagan. They thought they could control him, but failed in the end.

[Imran Siddiqui]

beware when using such shallow arguments Imran, they can be turned against you.

Can you tell me the 'crisis' that Reagan faced? Instead of making up stuff and saying "Ha, Ha, I reversed it!" when you really did no such thing?

[Sava]

According to you, Reagan is THE GREAT SAVIOR AGAINST THE EVIL EMPIRE. Certainly that is a crisis!

[Imran Siddiqui]

Um... yeah, sure...

How is it a crisis to have a country that dislikes you in a Cold War for 50 years or so? Long crisis, eh? If there was one obvious solution to the crisis, don't you think every President would have handled the USSR the same way?

ZZZZT, sorry Sava, you're wrong again .

[Sava]

Make up your mind Imran, either Reagan's a great savior, or he's not. Your double talk is getting tiresome. And you opened the door for "well if this guy did it, another guy would have done the same thing" comparisons. Don't run away just because you are getting shredded by the likes of me.

[Ramo]

Then why did Gorby fear it so that his main request as Rekjavik and other disarmament conferences was for the Americans to stop SDI?

Because building nukes wasn't a huge priority for either side at the time (and they were covered to a large extent by the arms limitation treaties). The SDI was the main avenue for upping the ante, so that naturally would've been the Soviets' primary concern at such conferences.

Why did plenty of the former government officials in the former KGB say that SDI was the straw that broke the camel's back?

Plenty of former Soviet officials would've said otherwise. In terms of actual spending, the response to the SDI simply wasn't that big relative to the military budget.

Gorby's election as Premier is almost solely because of Reagan. The Party believed it needed someone young and dynamic to lead the party instead of the old fogeys who were getting HAMMERED by Reagan. So they picked Gorby, even though he was a reformer. They needed someone to be able to stand up to Reagan. They thought they could control him, but failed in the end.

Yes, but PR concerns were kind of less important during the time Gorby was in power - when the politburo knew he wasn't very pliant, compared to perestroika, etc. doing practically nothing in terms of toning down American policies towards the Soviets.