Does God Exist?

[Rogan Josh]

Originally posted by The Templar
But Christians do have the Crusades, Inquisitions, Witchhunts, and forced conversions. Christians have rarely (if ever) turned the other cheek. The practice of Christianity has had little to do with the teachings of Jesus.

That is not Christianity. If I were to commit mass murder in the name of capitalism, would it make capilalism evil?

The good news is that it is probably impossible to prove the non-existence of God. Of course, if I asked you to prove the non-existence of unicorns in the universe you would be ****ed given the sheer size of the universe.

It is impossible to prove the non-existence of God, but it is not impossible to prove his existence. He may choose to reveal himself. And as this poll clearly shows, the existence of God is a question which deserves more consideration than the existence of unicorns (I am surprised you don't want pink ones )

The bad news is that the God which cannot be proven not to exist is a theologically thin God.

That is not true. The Christian God of the Bible cannot be disproven and I would not call Him 'thin'. In fact He has been 'packing them in' for almost 2000 years now.

[Proteus_MST]

I believe in some kind of God.
But not as an anthropomorphic Personalisation (some kind of old man with a long white beard ) which created earth and every animal or Plant upon it 6000 years ago, but at something which is inherent within the Univrse and the natural laws.
So we are part of God such as God is part of us.

I think none of the Religions around contains the absolute Truth, but all Religions contain a part of it.

[Robert]

Boris: While politics are certainly a huge part of it, I think your dismissal of the religious aspect is an unfounded dismissal. I've noticed this tendency amongst a lot of religiouscists, to basically claim all religious strife is really about something else. How about the levels of intolerance and hatred of Catholics by evangelical Christians, and vice-versa? You think that's not religously-centered strife?

First about North Ireland:
that conflict is not religious. period.
They use their religions for polarisation.
My wife has been there, she's a journalist and wrote an article about the issue. She talked to an ex-catholic terrorist and to an ex-protestant terrorist. Both said that religion didn't mean much more than cultural polarisation to them. In fact they didn't knew what their 'believe' was about.

About the rest of your message,
yes, there are christians and groups of christians who do hate certain groups of people etc.

People do misuse religion for hate and intolerance.
Like people use democracy and freedom of speech as well. I'm aware of that and I'm pretty sad about that.

But it just shows what I said before and what is being teached by the bible. All people are sinners, and christians are people. And thus do sin for sure.

And this is not indicative that they all live culturally alike. Do Jews all live culturally alike? Is Al Franken living the same cultural existence as an orthodox Jew in Brooklyn? Certainly not. This shows some appalling ignorance on your part of how Muslim-American live as opposed to, say, the Taliban. Do you really think their lives are culturally similar? That is unimaginable.

Something being cultural similar isn't the same as sharing pieces of culture.

Take the way muslim-women have to dress.
Of course there are muslims who are not very strict on it, but there's no doubt that there are strict rules written in the Koran.

CS: Read the Bible, read the Koran, read whatever religious scripture there is.
Read what is says about people, about the future (the current time) and see which one is the truth.
Of course your mind must be open to really find the truth.

Again, this is basing truth on gut feeling and emotional speculation. Sorry, but that doesn't cut it. I've read the Bible, it doesn't speak to me in nearly the same way that listening to a Mahler adagio does.

I'm sorry to hear that.
I can't push my believe up to you.
I wish you would see it the same way as I do. Not because I want to right, but because I wish you would feel like I do about life.

You say you find more hope in new-age.

New age more or less teaches that this world would be a better place if we would all each other. (very very very simplistic said)

I share that teaching, I think it's a very hopefull message.
But is it true?

It's true that it would be a better world in that situation indeed. But will it be possible to achive?
Do you think that humanity will be able to selflessly love?

Pherhaps the Bible doesn't bring a message which sounds great and cool.
But what's more important, a good looking fairy tale or the truth?

If the truth is that humanity is incapable of making a better world in any way, than that's not a good message. But if that's the truth, there is no better message though.

Thus the question to you would be,
do you prefer new-age because of what it promises, or because you think it's possible?

[Robert]

The Templar: But Christians do have the Crusades, Inquisitions, Witchhunts, and forced conversions. Christians have rarely (if ever) turned the other cheek. The practice of Christianity has had little to do with the teachings of Jesus.

Unfortunately that's true.
Christians aren't any better than any other people.

There are christians who did turn the other cheek.
Like there are humanists who do.

The Bible doesn't teach that christians are better people.
It teaches that humanity isn't capable of being 'better'.
Pherhaps we'd rather hear the message that we can become better by doing this or doing that.

I can't live any life that will make me rightious.
But I do believe though that God Himself came as a human, Jesus, to live the better life, and to take my sins and to be punished in my place.

What I can't achive has been achived by God Himself.

Of course, if I asked you to prove the non-existence of unicorns in the universe you would be ****ed given the sheer size of the universe.

You can't compare unicorns with God.
- People died because they believed in God. Nobody died because they believed in unicorns.
- There hasn't been the slightiest sign of any Unicorn. God at least has given miracles, the Bible, etc. etc. Pherhaps that's all been made up as well, but it's allways more than the unicorn.
- Nobody believes in the unicorn, billions believe in God.

I can't believe there is no unicorn, but it's not on the same level as God.

[mrmitchell]

- People died because they believed in God. Nobody died because they believed in unicorns.

Never underestimate the unicorn worshippers.

- There hasn't been the slightiest sign of any Unicorn. God at least has given miracles, the Bible, etc. etc. Pherhaps that's all been made up as well, but it's allways more than the unicorn.

Technically, with the mere size of the universe, it's impossible for there not to be unicorns.

- Nobody believes in the unicorn, billions believe in God.

Don't jump to conclusions about that. The unicorn worshippers are all around you.

[FrustratedPoet]

Originally posted by mrmitchell
Technically, with the mere size of the universe, it's impossible for there not to be unicorns.

If the Universe is infinite then logically everything must exist, including God. Case closed.

[Robert]

Technically, with the mere size of the universe, it's impossible for there not to be unicorns.

Technically? Theoretically you mean.
So far there hasn't been found any life outside earth.
Not to talk about complex life like purple unicorns.

[The Templar]

Originally posted by Rogan Josh


That is not Christianity. If I were to commit mass murder in the name of capitalism, would it make capilalism evil?

Hmm, Vel is always arguing with me that communism is evil because its implementation has created far more evil than good in the world ...

At any rate, it shows that the practice of Christianity has been pretty bad over the ages. Very out of step with the theology or "truth" of Christianity.

That is not true. The Christian God of the Bible cannot be disproven and I would not call Him 'thin'. In fact He has been 'packing them in' for almost 2000 years now.

Why is God supposedly a He? If God is omnipotent, couldn't God also be a She if God wants? I prefer 'It' (with the upper case 'I') for God - unless of course 'God' is some sort of third-person divine pronoun ...

At any rate, talking snakes, towers to heaven, the universe created in 6 days, a flood that wipes out all flesh except two of each kind of animal (inbreeding problems?), and best of all - a God that loves all people, but if you don't believe in It you burn in hell for all eternity. This all sounds inconsistent at best and completely hokey at worst.

Are you ****ing serious that this can't be disproven? Show me one talking snake! Explain how Hell fits in with God's infinite goodness and compassion.

[The Templar]

Originally posted by CyberShy
You can't compare unicorns with God.
- People died because they believed in God. Nobody died because they believed in unicorns.
- There hasn't been the slightiest sign of any Unicorn. God at least has given miracles, the Bible, etc. etc. Pherhaps that's all been made up as well, but it's allways more than the unicorn.
- Nobody believes in the unicorn, billions believe in God.

Millions believed the Earth was flat for centuries. Does that mean the Earth was in fact flat at that time? Believing don't make it so.

Nor does dying for a belief make it true. All told, religion has probably gotten millions killed over the years. So which one is right? What about the athiests who died for not believing in God - does that make athiests right?

BTW, I've never seen a miracle or a unicorn. Have you seen a miracle (and I don't mean Jesus on a tortilla).

[The Templar]

Originally posted by FrustratedPoet


If the Universe is infinite then logically everything must exist, including God. Case closed.

So somewhere in the universe there is a square circle? A rock to heavy for God to lift?

[The diplomat]

Originally posted by The Templar
Millions believed the Earth was flat for centuries. Does that mean the Earth was in fact flat at that time? Believing don't make it so.

But would millions of people die for a belief that they knew was false? I doubt it.

[Robert]

Nor does dying for a belief make it true.

People who have knowed Jesus have died for claiming they saw Him alive after he died.

Someone who didn't see Jesus after His death, but want to give their lives for telling a lie from which they know it's wrong........... must be completely insane.

It's not proof, but it must make you wonder.

oh wait, that's what the diplomat said......
whatever, typed too much to erase.

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by The diplomat


But would millions of people die for a belief that they knew was false? I doubt it.

Reminds me of the Chines Boxer uprising and the Uprising of the Zulu.
In both Cases people believed that they were gifted by Invulnerability against the Bullets from european Muskets or Rifles.
In Case of the Boxers it was, that they believed, they had attained a Level of Kung Fu, which allowed them to be invulnerable against Weapons, including Projectiles, in Case of the Zulu AFAIK it was, because their Shamans had cast a Spell of Invulnerability upon them.

In both cases the people died for their belief (although they wreaked some Havoc amongst the Enemies, especially in case of the Zulu [but the Losses amongst the Zulu/Boxer were in every case much higher, than in case of the Europeans]).

I thijnk there was also a Cese in America, where the American Indians believed to be invulnerable agajÃnst the Bullets of the American Cavalry because of the great Ghost Dance and paid with their blood for this belief.

Andf today there are people, who fly planmes into Scyscrapers because they believe, that they will afterwards be in Heaven with a lot of virgins and also People who readily sacrify themselfes by becoming living Bombs against unbelieving Oppressors (also calles Israelis) also, because they believe, that their work is somhow honored by some kind of higher being.

[Wernazuma III]

Originally posted by The diplomat
But would millions of people die for a belief that they knew was false? I doubt it.

You're completely off the track. Nobody says that religious people are clinging to their religion conscient that it is wrong. Where do you have that from? Nobody acuses them of being malevolent liers. That surely applied to some religious leaders who just used the belief of people for their puropses but not for people themselves.The sad thing is that actually many people REALLY DO believe something with fervor, with no logic evidence that it's true and even die for what they hold to be the truth for no logic reason. That's the power of faith, scary and sad.

[Robert]

Proteus / Wernazuma,

like I said in my message (to which you not reacted)
The first christians who said they saw Jesus risen from death THEMSELVES knew if they lied or not.

They gave their lives for something they knew it was a lie?