A Temporary Rugby Thread

[Havak]

That type of Haka does sound very appropriately French LdiCesare.

As for the signature I hadn’t looked at it in a while – I’ll see if I can trawl something else up soon.

Given that there are no interesting people in this century, and nor are there likely to be, you're not off the hook. Sorry.

Damn – I thought I had the perfect wriggle.

Thats a lot of ifs there already.

Not significant ones however – the sheer number of tourists in the Wallaby squad prove that.

I was under the impression that for one to be eligible to play for, Scotland for example, one had to actually reside there for a considerable period as well

Not under current IRB eligibility criteria – just Google Brendan Laney or Gleason and you’ll see what I mean. Grandparentage is enough, birth in a country is sufficient. It’s pretty messy and would benefit from some tidying up.

Would you really wish to condemn 10% of NZ's population to dreary rugbyless lives? Think of the children!

As an Englishman I wouldn’t dream of this of course. In fact for all those poor souls who no longer qualify for you after the changes I think we should offer them all fast track English citizenship instead.

I take your point about immigration per capita – but this isn’t a country with a static population either – we have continued and extensive immigration and the ethnics balance of the country is changing over time. Rugby hasn’t touched the hearts of certain minorities yet but I’m sure it will.

trying to implement a single system on a number of entities with completely different cultural/legal structures isn't a good way to do it IMO.

Ah but there’s the problem with any international sport – the governing bodies have to walk this tightrope all the time.

It must be time to trot out an outrageous statement then. We gave the sport to the world, I think we should set the laws – lets get rid of the IRB and appoint the RFU to the job – and then god help you all.

On the plus side you would soon then realise why English rugby took so long to get organised and competitive despite it’s (comparatively) huge resource base.

Round three won't start until the ME checks out that concussion of yours old chap.

I won’t deny the grey matter has swum around on occasion. Some of that was even rugger related.

As for the weekends game yes it was thoroughly enjoyable. Phil Waugh has made the Seven jersey his own – he looks more and more like Neil Back to me with every game as it is like he is glued to the ball. Sailor actually learned form the last game and let people land before nailing them – he also takes a hell of a lot of stopping and I think he is going to grow into a real asset for the Wallabies on that basis alone – he disrupts defensive patterns because it takes more than one man to routinely stop him.

As for the less savoury aspects – I was so disappointed in them. I thought after the last few cleaner games they were starting to put this behind them. The Kempson hit was disgusting – there’s no way he can even defend that as it was hardly marginal mis-timing.

Krige and Straeuli remind me of Arsene Wenger – the manager of soccer side Arsenal here. It’s become a running joke that if one of his players was involved in an incident that he ‘never saw it’. Well that’s the problem with TV isn’t it – it is a fairly good neutral witness.

I so hope they clean it up for the visit to NZ.

In reality, both suspensions amount to one week bans from international rugby because the Boks play only one Test - next week against the ABs - during the period of the suspensions and prior to the World Cup.

Do you remember how unhappy I was with McCraes six week suspension in which he missed not one game because it was given in the Aussie close season? The authorities get this wrong time and time again.

Hands up anyone who wants to be on the bottom of a ruck next time the Wallabies play the Boks?

Actually when the second row took Wilko very late in November Rudi even claimed his man was ‘trying to pull out of the tackle’ – what tackle? He shoulder charged Wilko whilst the lad was in the air. I don’t know if he is intellectually challenged or if he really believes the nonsense he spouts.

I would like to hear the views of paradox on the Boks current tendency to indulge in such play – but I understand he may not be happy we are laying into his side on this one.

[Andydog]

aahh there you guys are.. still going i see! Top stuff.

Coach Straeuli, typically, maintains the foul play is a figment of people's imaginations

Aye, that's 2 games in 6 months where the saffess have totally lost discipline, and yet the coach still denies there's a problem. The only reason Krige wasn't suspended after the England game was that player he concussed was his own. The SA public are baying for blood but SARFU won't make any changes until after the WC. I'll put a tenner on the fact neither Krige or Straeuli will be around after the WC.

Besides surely Botha knows better, rump or thigh is always far more tender and tastier than shoulder cuts.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
It must be time to trot out an outrageous statement then. We gave the sport to the world, I think we should set the laws – lets get rid of the IRB and appoint the RFU to the job – and then god help you all.

You gave cricket to the world, too. Nice to see you can win at one of them.

Phil Waugh has made the Seven jersey his own – he looks more and more like Neil Back to me with every game as it is like he is glued to the ball.

Hopefully Phil will keep his hair, though.

Sailor actually learned form the last game and let people land before nailing them – he also takes a hell of a lot of stopping and I think he is going to grow into a real asset for the Wallabies on that basis alone – he disrupts defensive patterns because it takes more than one man to routinely stop him.

Yes, sort of a poor man's Lomu in many ways. Nowhere near as devastating in attack but just as suspect in defence.

As for the less savoury aspects – I was so disappointed in them. I thought after the last few cleaner games they were starting to put this behind them. The Kempson hit was disgusting – there’s no way he can even defend that as it was hardly marginal mis-timing.

The Twickers atrocities aside, they seem to save it for us.

I so hope they clean it up for the visit to NZ.

It's hard to fathom the logic behind their actions. If there is any. One would think they'd adopt the tactics in an attempt to drag a superior team down to their level. In which case, they're likely to do it against the ABs. OTOH, they will struggle to catch most of them to bite, punch or gouge them.

Do you remember how unhappy I was with McCraes six week suspension in which he missed not one game because it was given in the Aussie close season? The authorities get this wrong time and time again.

It's ridiculous. It renders the punishment meaningless. The penalty should be specific - x weeks and/or x rep matches.

Actually when the second row took Wilko very late in November Rudi even claimed his man was ‘trying to pull out of the tackle’ – what tackle? He shoulder charged Wilko whilst the lad was in the air. I don’t know if he is intellectually challenged or if he really believes the nonsense he spouts.

Bloodyminded, I think. Revealed in his selection policies.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Andydog
aahh there you guys are.. still going i see! Top stuff.

And we've voted to nationalise your Civ Gold funds unless you hurry up and start betting again!

I'll put a tenner on the fact neither Krige or Straeuli will be around after the WC.

I'll have a tenner on Krige being around but not Straeuli.

Besides surely Botha knows better, rump or thigh is always far more tender and tastier than shoulder cuts.

There isn't a tender or tasy square millimetre on a front rower. Ask Havak.

[finbar]

Just posting our Bank A/c here for safekeeping. And to embarrass Andydog!

Andydog 286.5
Bearcat 80.5
Caligastia 110.5
finbar 14.5
Frozzy 104
Havak 88.05
Journeyman 122.5
LDiCesares 152.3
Mickeyj 143.5
NeoStar 114
ravagon 90.25
redbull 80
Tamerlin 59.3

[Andydog]

Just posting our Bank A/c here for safekeeping. And to embarrass Andydog!

14.5? Is that all you have left mate? Sorry but can you just remind us why it's me that should be embarrassed?

Getting back to the saffee discipline, should this continue, surely there has to be some sort of formula introduced for suspension? I think it is criminal that these guys effectively miss one test game - do things like that off a rugby field and you'd be locked up for 3 months. Mistakes I can accept, but blatant and deliberate misconduct surely must be taken to another level. Who knows, I just hope that everyone takes note and it doesn't happen again. I was sick to the stomach watching Kefu being carried off with a neck brace.

[Havak]

You gave cricket to the world, too. Nice to see you can win at one of them.

It’s a good job they declared when they did Finbar – we could have bowled all five days and never got them all out.

The only real positive from the entire second test was ‘Freddy’ Flintoffs entertaining knock of 142 (five sixes included) – during which he totally split a bat in two down it’s length.

Smith seems to have the entire England side bamboozled – Hussein dropped him whilst he was in single figures and they never looked close to troubling him again until Anderson finally sneaked through his guard well after it was too late to matter.

Hopefully Phil will keep his hair, though.

Not a chance – at Waughy’s age Backy had flowing golden locks and (catalogue) model looks. At least Phil doesn’t need to worry about losing the latter.

Nowhere near as devastating in attack but just as suspect in defence.

Given him time – he has improved beyond all recognition in just two years. Ah – that’s actually not that good is it?

The Twickers atrocities aside, they seem to save it for us.

Although it is safe to say our group game with them will be interesting given Krige promised ‘retribution’ after last November’s game. Spirit of the game alive and well with there I see.

In which case, they're likely to do it against the ABs

It will be truly fascinating to see how they react if, as we suspect, the ABs start to build a lead.

It's ridiculous. It renders the punishment meaningless. The penalty should be specific - x weeks and/or x rep matches.

Matches has to be the way to go with it I think.

Bloodyminded, I think. Revealed in his selection policies.

It takes a very ‘special’ coach to fail as thoroughly as he did at Welsh club level so you may be right.

There isn't a tender or tasy square millimetre on a front rower. Ask Havak.

There’s nothing but gristle.

Wow – Andydog is rich – share the wealth man!!

[finbar]

Originally posted by Andydog


14.5? Is that all you have left mate? Sorry but can you just remind us why it's me that should be embarrassed?

Because, in days of yore, gamblers who accumulated funds and sat on them were carted off to the nearest tree and hanged!

Getting back to the saffee discipline, should this continue, sure there has to be some sort of formula introduced for suspension? I think it is criminal that these guys effectively miss one test game - do things like that off a rugby field and you'd be locked up for 3 months. Mistakes I can accept, but blatant and deliberate misconduct surely must be taken to another level. Who knows, I just hope that everyone takes note and it doesn't happen again. I was sick to the stomach watching Kefu being carried off with a neck brace.

Yes, that was Havak's point. Duncan Macrae - ex-Waratah halfback - benefited from the same judiciary stupidity after he went berko punching on the Lions tour here. He got, from memory, six weeks but it fell largely in the off season. BTW, did you notice Kempson - embarrassed and guilty - joining in the crowd's sympathetic applause when Kefu was being carried off? Kempson is a serial offender. I wonder, in fact, if the ramifications of the incident will cause him to think about his methods?

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak


It’s a good job they declared when they did Finbar – we could have bowled all five days and never got them all out.

The only real positive from the entire second test was ‘Freddy’ Flintoffs entertaining knock of 142 (five sixes included) – during which he totally split a bat in two down it’s length.

Smith seems to have the entire England side bamboozled – Hussein dropped him whilst he was in single figures and they never looked close to troubling him again until Anderson finally sneaked through his guard well after it was too late to matter.

Yes, I've watched quite a bit of both matches. The time difference works out rather nicely letting me hop into bed and watch a couple of hours. It was good to see Flintoff finally produce the goods, even if in a relatively pressure-free situation. He had nothing to lose. He's always seemed to me to be a big, strapping chap living on his potential.

Exactly what that Yorkshireman - McGrath? - is doing in the team, I'm not sure. Trescothick's lack of footwork will always be found out by any half-decent bowler prepared to persist on a line across his body. Trouble is, he will come out and score heavily against sub-standard bowling and convince everyone he's top class. And Vaughn needs his backside kicked for a couple of irresponsible dismissals.

From what I saw, Smith - well, the lot of them - fed off some very average bowling. It's what let them down out here. Unless you've got blinding speed, you've got to be able to put it on the same spot ball after ball, building and maintaining pressure.

Not a chance – at Waughy’s age Backy had flowing golden locks and (catalogue) model looks. At least Phil doesn’t need to worry about losing the latter.

He does look a bit like the dog that chased the car that stopped suddenly. Pity that George Smith has suffered in the shift to blindside, though. He tries hard - as ever - but looks a bit lost.

Given him time – he has improved beyond all recognition in just two years. Ah – that’s actually not that good is it?

Look, even I've conceded he's improved. Out of sight. And in about three months, actually, because his S12 season was full of the same old blunders. He's gone from a rugby ninny to someone whom, it appears anyway, is starting to think in rugby terms. I think it's a case of Eddie having confidence in him, encouraging him, and it paying off. Though I doubt anyone will ever turn him into a reliable defender. Lote Toquiri, though, IMHO, is the superior talent.

Although it is safe to say our group game with them will be interesting given Krige promised ‘retribution’ after last November’s game. Spirit of the game alive and well with there I see.

It will be truly fascinating to see how they react if, as we suspect, the ABs start to build a lead.

Well, it depends on how things settle after last Saturday night. If the coach and skipper are serious in their denials, presumably the same things will go on happening, including during the World Cup. Unless there's something going on behind the scenes we don't know about, you have to wonder why the Bok hierarchy back at home has been so quiet.

Edit. Good grief. I was just reading on Planet Rugby about the Currie Cup match on the weekend between Western Province and the Lions. A record six yellow cards - one of which became a red when the carded player returned to the field and immediately started throwing punches right in front of the ref! Unsurprisingly, the Bok ref condemned the lack of discipline in South African rugby.

Wow – Andydog is rich – share the wealth man!!

Methinks Denis Thatcher's gin-sodden spirit has entered Andydog's body!

[Andydog]

Because, in days of yore, gamblers who accumulated funds and sat on them were carted off to the nearest tree and hanged!

You should thank me big guy - how much would i be sitting on right now had i bet, as usual, on the ABs?

Wow – Andydog is rich – share the wealth man!!

I'll be betting mate. Btw, you might as well flag MickeyJ's gold. He's still travelling - I doubt you'll see him back here.

BTW, did you notice Kempson - embarrassed and guilty - joining in the crowd's sympathetic applause when Kefu was being carried off? Kempson is a serial offender. I wonder, in fact, if the ramifications of the incident will cause him to think about his methods?

I did notice Kempson clapping Kefu off, but the point is this: Serial offenders (and everyone knows who they are) just shouldn't be allowed to walk straight back on the park. I remember years ago a Richard Lowe incident - he broke Paul CArozza's nose after he scored a try, and then got suspended for 2 weeks.

There needs to be an international standard with grades of offences (like they have in League, i hesitate to mention). Then, maybe 2 club games = 1 international or Super 12 game, i.e. suspended for 8 weeks, you miss 4 internationals.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Andydog


You should thank me big guy - how much would i be sitting on right now had i bet, as usual, on the ABs?

Yeah, go on, rub it in!

I'll be betting mate. Btw, you might as well flag MickeyJ's gold. He's still travelling - I doubt you'll see him back here.

Goodoh. We'll nationalise him.

I did notice Kempson clapping Kefu off, but the point is this: Serial offenders (and everyone knows who they are) just shouldn't be allowed to walk straight back on the park. I remember years ago a Richard Lowe incident - he broke Paul CArozza's nose after he scored a try, and then got suspended for 2 weeks.

Ah, the infamous Richard Loe. One of the all-time great thugs. If I recall, he also copped something like a year for eye-gouging a fellow AB in an NPC final and an even longer sentence for stomping a Wallaby head.

There needs to be an international standard with grades of offences (like they have in League, i hesitate to mention). Then, maybe 2 club games = 1 international or Super 12 game, i.e. suspended for 8 weeks, you miss 4 internationals.

Couldn't agree more. Australian Rules does a similar thing, differentiating between premiership matches, pre-season tournament matches, etc.

The truly disturbing thing is that the Boks have flown out for New Zealand with the team's PR man saying that, a couple of regrettable incidents aside, and they arose from frustration, the Boks just play tough rugby, not sissy rugby. What's more, he said, they were looking forward to getting to New Zealand where they appreciate tough rugby. The extent of the self-delusion is mindboggling.

[Caligastia]

Sorry about the thread situation guys, I didn't get a chance to post while in pommyland.

Finbar:

I think it was more that they missed Carlos' driving skills after he went off. They were suddenly much less potent, something that I'm sure wasn't lost on John Mitchell.

Yes, that's probably the case. Carter just doesn't have the experience of Spencer. He shows good potential though.

The Wallabies? I'm not sure where they go from here. Sure, it didn't help that Wendell stupidly got himself carded, resulting in two AB tries while he was missing from the field. Brendan Cannon, BTW, should have gone for the same offence.

Yeah, I was going to mention that before. Another example of referee inconsistency. Wendell's looked worse, but both were equally dangerous.

But Wendell's defensive weaknesses had already been exploited by Rokococo, so it's highly likely the AB tries would have happened regardless with Wendell still on the field. At least Cannon redeemed himself after last week's effort with good lineout throwing and a very strong game around the ground.

Wendell's problem seems to one of intelligence. The errors he makes are real no-brainers. Okay, so he came over from l*****, but if had done his homework he would have been aware of the no-tackle-in-the-air rule long ago.

[Caligastia]

Sorry, mon ami, every scrum on Saturday night was contested. True, they didn't crouch locked like a couple of copulating dogs for forty minutes, but then there was rugby to be played.

Classic

[finbar]

Originally posted by Caligastia
Sorry about the thread situation guys, I didn't get a chance to post while in pommyland.

You mean the Poms haven't got the internet yet? Gee, they've been going backwards since they lost the colonies.

Wendell's problem seems to one of intelligence.

I think you've hit the nail right on the very, very thick cranium.

[Caligastia]

Havak

A rudimentary background check shows Lord Rutherford had two British born parents which immediately qualifiy him with more right to be classed 'British' than any Fijian has to be an 'Aucklander'.

I reckon where you live most of your childhood has more bearing on your nationality than where you or your parents happen to be born.

Rutherford was as kiwi as they come.