A Temporary Rugby Thread

[finbar]

Don't know where Cal is, or how long he will take to get here, so I've started this to keep us going in the meantime. We can always ask Ming to close it when we get one with a real title started.

So we should come up with some titles for the new thread. History suggests a new one won't last till the World Cup, so maybe we should save a World Cup title for later on.

Did we do Rugby - Crouch and Hold!? I've forgotten.

Edit. From the last thread:

Tamerlin and Havak remind me of a couple of Tory old fogies. "This game is most certainly not my cup of tea" "Where on earth did you put the cheese and chutney sandwiches?"

Or, in Tamerlin's case, "S.H. rugby is merde, old chap!"

[Havak]

Maybe I should have looked in the OT for this before sending those other title suggestions to you Finbar.

[FrustratedPoet]

Re: A Temporary Rugby Thread

Originally posted by finbar
Did we do Rugby - Crouch and Hold!? I've forgotten.

Yes you did.

Search can't find it, although I'm sure I remember it.

[finbar]

Maybe I should have looked in the OT for this before sending those other title suggestions to you Finbar.

You'll notice I was advised by your blandness.

[finbar]

Re: Re: A Temporary Rugby Thread

Originally posted by FrustratedPoet


Yes you did.

Thanks, FP, you have now been awarded the title "Rugby Thread Archivist". Honorary, of course.

[finbar]

Re: Re: A Temporary Rugby Thread

Originally posted by FrustratedPoet


Yes you did.

Search can't find it, although I'm sure I remember it.

Crafy late edit! In that case, FP, the honorary title is withdrawn forthwith and you can repay those exorbitant expenses you claimed while performing the job!

I think it was discussed at some point but I can't recall us using it.

[Havak]

My blandness knows no limits.

I also came up with Rugby - Advantage White but thought that was open to huge misunderstanding?

Same problem with black for the ABs. I'm sure Wattle is fine however.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
I also came up with Rugby - Advantage White but thought that was open to huge misunderstanding?

I think you mean "massive".

[FrustratedPoet]

Re: Re: Re: A Temporary Rugby Thread

Originally posted by finbar


Crafy late edit! In that case, FP, the honorary title is withdrawn forthwith and you can repay those exorbitant expenses you claimed while performing the job!

I think it was discussed at some point but I can't recall us using it.

Google found it.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=80258

Can I have my money back now?

[Havak]

IMO the best way to beat the All Blacks is the very classical game England is playing since a few years.

Some of them certainly don’t like it – but I suspect that is mainly because it’s effective against them. But we can and do play an expansive game when conditions allow – we didn’t beat the All Blacks last November just by keeping the ball up our shirts and in the recent game with Australia there was some sublime play by the back line.

Did I read somewhere that the Heineken Cup is going to introduce bonus points? I think that's one of the problems with S12. Sure, it creates a spectacle, but it only drives the competition further in that direction.

You did indeed. They are introducing it and the fans are concerned – but then something had to be done to make the QF qualifying easier to understand – and BPs should help separate sides. Plus the Premiership has had it for several years but the refereeing has not altered to deliberately make tries more likely – that may be a key difference?

I mean no offence, but you are a tighthead Winston Churchill.

None taken – as I know how you meant it. Of course you know what colour rosette he wore in contrast to myself.

The French were at it long before England caught up - strong packs, creative backlines.

…and a tendency to fall asleep at crucial moments – yes we have followed them there.

Thighs as thick as tree trunks and skulls to match.

You got it – also immune to pain and all everybody else’s cousins.

I was taking up your point about the unhelpfulness - to say the least - of the public bollocking.

Got you now. Yes, good point.

Obviously Frozzy became very very nervous and opened his wallet for the NZRFU.

Why? Surely a scratch ‘developmental’ side of ABs could sweep all before it?

Havak - Pat Howard was inside centre and playing sensationally. His speed, stepping and sheer ability to create space was amazing. I'd forgotten how good he was. I suspect it was not long before he broke his leg. Gee, that really hurt his career.

The only think he lost of those three was a little speed – but that’s crucial at that level. I wasn’t kidding when I said he was genuinely loved at Welford Road – and I honestly think he is still wasted at a second string French side – hell I would be happier if he had gone to Tamerlins mob.

Interesting description of a great side – I’ve also noticed Gregan’s once trademark sniping is no longer evident – one BBC reporter even accusing him of being utterly predictable (“double step back and offload every time”). I hope as with Larkham the real George is lurking somewhere ready for RWC – but save him for the ABs okay!

Ah, but often it is moments of individual brilliance that win and lose games

I accept that Frozzy – I honestly do. We have players capable of it – though maybe not the numbers that NZ can usually call on. One of Finbars old chums Mr Healey is always worth having in a side because he is one such game breaker. That’s why having played one game in eight months (and he took a cruel tackle in that that would have warmed Finbars heart) he is named in the warm up squad for the World Cup.

A very separate argument but the crucial factor here is thats its one I have a chance of winning.

And Havak gets check mated nicely.

I find absolutely nothing wrong with his choosing to represent the same country in the international arena.

I don’t fault his choice either. I don’t like it or believe I could ever do the same - but I do see the logic on his personal level of choosing the AB route. I do however pick fault with the eligibility system that allows this kind of thing.

Birth, parentage or seven years residency I say. Lets at least ditch Grandparental qualification and ditch the Jones-Hughes and Brendan Laney nonsense scenarios?

Obviously NZ teams have an advantage here, given the relatively close ties, geographically and otherwise, between NZ and many of those countries but you can't hold that against us.

Oh can’t I?

To be honest I don’t want to see us do that anyway. I’d like to see us develop English lads – or at least lads who are English under the terms I suggest above. Colour, religion and Orientation don’t bother me – but a lad pulling on the red rose needs to be English.
By the way I fall very firmly in the camp that it should be a white rose – but we’ll have to make do with red.

Hmmm ... As long as the weather's fine we're sure to win, as long as Carlo screws up the kicking?

If that’s what you read into it then who am I to argue?

Although I do happen to think we'd beat the same English team that defeated us twice earlier this year I'm under no illusion that it'd be a sure thing or anything other than a close game.

I am sure you realise I enjoy stirring the pot.

It would be a great game – I make no claims we could necessarily win it. I can safely keep saying we won the last two fixtures. I tend to think venue would be crucial right now – lets say I’m glad in a way that it’s the Boks and Wallabies visiting NZ next rather than us.

I still harbour this nagging doubt that the ABs are too alike England in one crucial way however –when all looks peachy is when it all tends to go badly wrong.

Have I ever bored you our tale of grand slam slip ups?

…but it wouldn't happen, by the most remote coincidence imaginable, to be four years since they last played would it?

Maybe. Prior to last November we last met in a certain pool game in RWC 99 – can’t for the life of me remember the result of that one.

Amongst the top five sides ranking wise I think England-ABs is by far the rarest fixture?

Frozzy – Ulster are former European Cup winners.

Having said that the Irish Union is in huge financial trouble. Everyone in England has been amazed that Munster and Ulster are spending so freely as a consequence.

And as for the England team - I think they should pay us money for having to watch their boring style of rugby and cynical ball-killing.

Add 'winning' between ‘boring’ and ‘style’ and we’ll consider paying you.

I think fellow fogey Tamerlin exceeds my passion for SH style bashing. I do happen to think the amalgam style currently employed by England is very effective – and with better conditions they would surprise you by playing quite differently t how they did in June. In addition the AB back line is too damn good to need to infringe the way they do. Doug Howlett is a damn fine player and doesn’t need to jump the game line by two metres all the time (watch him).

I was not happy the ref allowed the ‘try’ he scored against us in June – my friend Tamerlin would have been spitting chips however.

As for SH set pieces – Tamerlin where are you???

[finbar]

Re: Re: Re: Re: A Temporary Rugby Thread

Originally posted by FrustratedPoet


Google found it.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=80258

Can I have my money back now?

You sure display the diligence of some News Editors I know!

Yes, okay, you can keep the expenses. I've alerted the NZ Tax Office, but.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Plus the Premiership has had it for several years but the refereeing has not altered to deliberately make tries more likely – that may be a key difference?

I don't think the reffing altered here with S12. They can only ref the game that's played. If you're talking about offside play, et al, that's become a worldwide phenomenon.

None taken – as I know how you meant it. Of course you know what colour rosette he wore in contrast to myself.

To my parents' eternal discredit, they game me a middle name after the fat, Conservative blowhard. My only comfort is that it was also John Lennon's middle name.

Got you now. Yes, good point.

It's being made perfectly clear in this morning's press that the ARU is rock-solid behind Eddie. Which is the only sensible thing to do. It is also pointed out that there is absolutely no alternative on the horizon.

The only think he lost of those three was a little speed – but that’s crucial at that level. I wasn’t kidding when I said he was genuinely loved at Welford Road – and I honestly think he is still wasted at a second string French side – hell I would be happier if he had gone to Tamerlins mob.

Watching that match has inspired me to look out for some of those compilation tapes - or DVDs - of earlier eras. It's too easy to forget the detail of performances.

Interesting description of a great side – I’ve also noticed Gregan’s once trademark sniping is no longer evident – one BBC reporter even accusing him of being utterly predictable (“double step back and offload every time”). I hope as with Larkham the real George is lurking somewhere ready for RWC – but save him for the ABs okay!

It was fascinating to watch. The key was the pack. It made Gregan's life so much easier. He's said recently that the team's in a performance rut and they are. Unfortunately, it falls on him, as the general, to lift them out of the rut. The BBC chap is quite right - Gregan's now utterly predictable, and I think it's come about because his forwards just aren't giving him the time or space to do anything other than retreat and pass.

A thought I've had on Larkham. I'd bet 5 Civ Gold - more if I had more in my account - that we will see Larkham move to full back, with Flatley and Matt Giteau at fly half and inside centre or vice versa. It wouldn't preclude Larkham from getting up into the attacking line and using his skills, but it would give him a rest away from the battering he's forever copping.

Jones-Hughes

Who now can't get a contract with a Welsh club and is apparently off to Munster.

Having said that the Irish Union is in huge financial trouble. Everyone in England has been amazed that Munster and Ulster are spending so freely as a consequence.

See above.

As for SH set pieces – Tamerlin where are you???

One possible explanation - I heard on the wireless news this morning that there was a massive theft of Viagra tablets from a warehouse in Paris.

[Alexander's Horse]

I think there's an ever so slight whiff of racism and the out-of-towner syndrome in the shellacking George and Eddy are getting.

[finbar]

As I said elsewhere, I think the Great Unwashed, to the extent that they're interested, are basically being themselves - love 'em when they're up, kick 'em when they're down. It happened to Steve Waugh, Mark Taylor, et al. A syndrome with which Havak is more than familiar.

In fact, I don't think the Great Unwashed are all that involved in it. The hysteria was created - and is being fanned - by Alan Jones and his lackey Ross Turnbull. There's nothing racist about it, it's simply a very personal vendetta on Alan Jones' part against Eddie Jones - and Gregan, because he's Eddie's man - which is a small part of Alan Jones' much larger vendetta against the ARU. Alan Jones has never forgiven the ARU for sacking him as Wallaby coach. He never will forgive them. So it really doesn't matter who is coaching the Wallabies, The Slug will, given the slightest opportunity, deliver broadsides against the person, and, by extension, against the ARU. The problem is, the Wallabies are not playing well, nor is George Gregan, so The Slug has the ammunition. When Rod Macqueen was coaching, and very successfully, not a peep was heard from The Slug. The only way to shut it up is to play well. That, or an axe through its frontal lobe.

[ravagon]

Originally posted by Havak

I don’t fault his choice either. I don’t like it or believe I could ever do the same - but I do see the logic on his personal level of choosing the AB route. I do however pick fault with the eligibility system that allows this kind of thing.

Birth, parentage or seven years residency I say. Lets at least ditch Grandparental qualification and ditch the Jones-Hughes and Brendan Laney nonsense scenarios?

I could accept a revision of the eligibility system perhaps, but 7 years as a permanent resident seems far too long to me.
IIRC, the last time I looked NZ had a Maori population a little over 12% of the total and another 10% made up of assorted Islanders - many of whom might not technically qualify as they're pretty much free to come and go as they please.

7 years would mean that little Jonno Havaki (a rather promising young rugby player by all accounts ), whose parents came over from Samoa when he was thirteen years old, and whose high school years were spent playing for the Pukarangi rugby team, would then still have to wait for two more years after he finished before he could play in the black jersey.

7 years might have been applicable several decades ago but people tend to travel more and more nowadays so such restrictions have to give a little.

By analogy, imagine if Wilco happened to have a Scottish parent and had spent enough time there that, due to some miniscule technicality, he wasn't eligible to play for England in lieu of Scotland?

*An aghast Havak rushes off to search through current English players Geneology charts*

Have I ever bored you our tale of grand slam slip ups?

I believe it may have come up yes. Once or twice.

Maybe. Prior to last November we last met in a certain pool game in RWC 99 – can’t for the life of me remember the result of that one.

I can. I made sure I looked it up before I posted it. Erm, this time. *ahem*



A war of words seems to have erupted between some of my Kiwi coworkers and some of our Australian tech support guys. This once, believe it or not, I am completely blameless.
One of the kiwi's dug this up from somewhere (apologies in advance to the Wallaby team)

The Wallabies rugby practice was delayed nearly two hours today after a player reported finding an unknown white powdery substance on the practice field. Head coach Eddie Jones immediately suspended practice while police and federal investigators were called in to investigate. After a complete analysis, forensic experts determined that the white powdery substance unknown to players was the try line. Practice was resumed after special agents decided that the team was unlikely to encounter the substance again.

That said and done, if anyone is interested, I would propose a margin of between 8-10 points (in Australias favour) on the Wallaby-Bok game tomorrow.
Anyone?