Schools in America: how to fix our education system.

[Drake Tungsten]

Less lecturing and more discussing in classrooms.

I'm afraid I'll have to buck the trend and oppose this idea. The last thing American schools need is even more emphasis on bull**** and feelings over the actual learning and retention of facts. High school kids need more lectures and readings, not more discussions on topics they probably don't understand in the first place.

[The Vagabond]

What I don't get is why the hell you are so obsessed with fixing your education system. Those who really want to get education will get it. Those who are not interested ..., why should you worry so much about it? There are plenty of jobs that should be done but where education is a liability rather than an asset. After all, the US can always hire specialists from abroad.

Well, your concern about the education system is understandable from the humanitarian point of view. However, is there any feasible concrete economic motivation behind it? It doesn't look so.

IMHO, fixing the health care system is more urgent.

[Drake Tungsten]

It's also a pride issue, Vagabond. If we can improve our education system, we will be the best in everything. The Euros will be left with nothing to cling to in their desperate struggle to avoid acknowledging their glaring inferiority in comparison to the U.S.A. Life will be good.

[Dis]

Originally posted by The Vagabond
What I don't get is why the hell you are so obsessed with fixing your education system. Those who really want to get education will get it. Those who are not interested ..., why should you worry so much about it? There are plenty of jobs that should be done but where education is a liability rather than an asset. After all, the US can always hire specialists from abroad.

Well, your concern about the education system is understandable from the humanitarian point of view. However, is there any feasible concrete economic motivation behind it? It doesn't look so.

IMHO, fixing the health care system is more urgent.

You touched on a very important point in the U.S. society. Many people have no desire to get an education. You can pour all the money into the schools you want, but if the kids don't want to learn, they won't learn.

The real problem is the society's perception that being smart is geeky and uncool. When I was in high school most people could care less about learning and reading and such. Yes even all the white kids wanted to be dumb and act like gangsters.

This is the real problem. I'm getting so tired of people saying more money will fix the problem. It just isn't true.

[The Vagabond]

Drake, in what concerns pride issues, health care is more important. You are the only 1st world country where a significant part of the population doesn't have health insurance. Now that's really a shame.

[mrmitchell]

Education today makes America tomorrow.

[/cheap phrase]

[Drake Tungsten]

You are the only 1st world country where a significant part of the population doesn't have health insurance.

We also have the most advanced medical system in the world. Most of the advances in medicine come from the U.S. Our system is nothing to be ashamed of.

[Drake Tungsten]

The real problem is the society

Phrase it like that and I'll agree with you. American society doesn't value learning the way it used to and the educational system reflects that.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Odin


Vouchers give money to religious schools. Dispite what libertarians say, this is bad because lack of funding is why many schools suck. I now this personally because my school had to cut several classes as a result of Minnesota's buget crunch.

What does giving money to students to spend on whatever sort of education they want have to do with lack of funding in the public schools? In many cases voucher programs have increased the per pupil funding for students in schools where some of the students have accepted vouchers and moved on simply to quash this exact "argument" by the teacher's union. Here in Colorado the teachers unions used a lot of national union money to quash a voucher proposal which would have allowed public schools to keep half of the money that any transferring student had brought into their system. This would have meant a significant increase in the per pupil allotment of funds for schools, but the teachers union was more interested in maintaining a monopoly on education than they were in funding schools. Big surprise.

Explain why there is somehow an automatic decrease in funding when a school loses both a student and the state and federal funding that went with him. The school has one less student to provide for, and still receives his portion of local tax money. This means an increase in per pupil funding, or at worst a wash. You spew a lot of prepared political argument, but aren't very clear on the facts.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by David Floyd
I would also like a much greater emphasis on philosophy - teach people how to think.

Yeah, like you.

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by Dissident
You touched on a very important point in the U.S. society. Many people have no desire to get an education. You can pour all the money into the schools you want, but if the kids don't want to learn, they won't learn.

The real problem is the society's perception that being smart is geeky and uncool. When I was in high school most people could care less about learning and reading and such. Yes even all the white kids wanted to be dumb and act like gangsters.

This is the real problem. I'm getting so tired of people saying more money will fix the problem. It just isn't true.

I am inclined to believe that, in such a capitalistic country as America, the situation you describe takes place because and only because a better education level is not claimed by the economy (at least, not yet).

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
It's also a pride issue, Vagabond. If we can improve our education system, we will be the best in everything. The Euros will be left with nothing to cling to in their desperate struggle to avoid acknowledging their glaring inferiority in comparison to the U.S.A. Life will be good.

You want to try going there, Drake. Or go to Canada. Lower crime, better TV better overall standard of education. No average American (or NZer for that matter) gets an education like the one most Germans get.

I think it has something to do with the anti-intellectualism of English speaking countries. Whatever, it is we are a bunch of dumb, lazy ***** compared to them.

[Drake Tungsten]

Yeah, like you.

Now, Agathon, you really shouldn't bite the hand that defends your silly career.

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

You are the only 1st world country where a significant part of the population doesn't have health insurance.

We also have the most advanced medical system in the world. Most of the advances in medicine come from the U.S.

True. But still... this can't excuse the lack of health coverage.

[Drake Tungsten]

No average American (or NZer for that matter) gets an education like the one most Germans get.

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