Why the best tracks at war movies are anti-war?

[Pekka]

And as for the global problem, I understand what you mean. It's a mess and it's evil. But it's out of the hands, and has been for a long time. Everyone has guns, everyone can kill, and there are many folks trying to do that to innocent people too. So, if you jsut stop designing and lower your weapons down, it doesnt' mean you get peace. I'm a man of peace, that's what I want. I just believe that it's not up to you if someone decides otherwise. And because it is out of the hand, you can only make sure you're not the one with rusty old weapons.

[Pekka]

Osweld, well if you want to defend yourlsef with a stick against bombs, then go ahead, but I hope you're not the defense secretary of your country .

[General Ludd]

It's a cycle, both war and weapons development. If no one is willing to break the cycle, it will go on forever. Refusing to fight a war, or take arms, might mean that you are killed - but so does doing so.

I'd rather die knowing that I wasn't a part of the problem then die trying to kill people I don't know. And I'd rather hold a stick then a gun - what sort of person shoots someone unarmed? I don't want to be like them.

[Pekka]

Well.. I respect your position then. It is admirable to be ready to take a stick when invaders are coming. I mean it too. I guess I don't want to die as a protest. Though I accept the possibility of not coming back when I grab weapons.

And if someone is invading, I think the problem is the invader, not you. Solving the problem would be kicking the enemy back, and not submit to their will. That's what I think. But I don't disrespect your views on this.

But I wouldn't trust staying alive even with only holding a stick.

[Pekka]

And as for the cycle.. yes.. it will go on and on and on. Like it has been since humans first came. It will never stop. You see our difference here is, that you think it is possible to change people so that there will be no wars.
I don't believe in that.

And it is a high possibility that if you just drop your weapons, you will be the one getting the war, but now you are unable to defend yourself. I dont' believe in others morals and ethics, that they will be nice enough to not destroy you if you are at your weakest. Humans are bastards. I believe there will be no wars when all humans are gone forever.

[:) Smiley]

Wasn't there a poster on this forum whose name was War4ever?

[Pekka]

Well, now that I threadjacked my own thread, let's get back to the topic. So, does anyone know any good reasons why there are so many anti-war songs in war movies?

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Pekka
And if someone is invading, I think the problem is the invader, not you.

Well, that's circumstantial. But I believe that there's always two sides to a conflict.

It is admirable to be ready to take a stick when invaders are coming.

Well, someones got to be there for the peasant uprising. Give me a pitch fork and I'm happy.

And as for the cycle.. yes.. it will go on and on and on. Like it has been since humans first came. It will never stop. You see our difference here is, that you think it is possible to change people so that there will be no wars.

There's always been fighting, even feuding, but there hasn't always been wars (or an arms race). It wasn't untill governments and kingdoms where formed that the arms race and warring began... Then again, you can say that the reason that happened was the feuding, which is in turn a result of fighting. This is what I'm geting at here - every reactionary step escalates the problem into something worse.

It's gotten to the point where people just hate each other without even knowing why. It probably all started thousands of years ago because someone took a stone out of someone else's cave, and now people are blowing eachother up with nuclear bombs because of it. And you're right... a situation like that is not easy to diffuse. Probably impossible to do it in a single generation, or even thee. But making it worse isn't geting anywhere.

[Pekka]

But surely getting weapons purely self defense is not getting the problem bigger..? Wars are, but not self defense and being ready. If everyone is defending themselves only, then there wouldn't be any wars?
Of course there are always two sides, and no one is 100% right or 100% wrong.. I just disagree the problem will go away.. I think it's a problem that we will just have to live (or die) with forever, and only make sure that we are the ones defending, not giving new problems.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Pekka
But surely getting weapons purely self defense is not getting the problem bigger..?

As i said, there are no such things as offensive and deffensive weapons. And this exactly how an arms race starts. Country A builds 50 tanks to defend themselves with. Country B sees this and builds 100 tanks to defend themselves with. Country A then has to build 100 more tanks, which in turn provokes Country B to build another 100 of their own. And so on.

[Az]

Btw, there is nothing wrong to marvel at dangerous and bad things. We marvel at crocs and snakes, no?

[Pekka]

Osweld, yes but it's impossible to stop.. unless you're a dirty hippie! And that leads you to only bad things.

Doesn't work in the real world. Just like communism didn't. It's a sad fact, but is true.