It's all about oppurtunity...

[Japher]

Clerks?

It's a great movie, check it out..

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Japher


It's a great movie, check it out..

Oh, ok. I haven't seen it yet because I couldn't imagine a movie about clerks being any good.

[The Templar]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Fear is a controlled response. I used to be scared of the dark. I'm not any more. I used to be scared of the water. That changed. Why? Because I MADE it change. I chose, using my spiffy lil' ol' free will to simply not be afraid anymore.

Lets talk fear then. Fear is a conditioned response to danger. A subconscious nudge if you will in a certain direction in response to perceived immanet danger. One cannot usually just say "fear go away" or will their fear away in an instant. It arises based on perception. So there is one limit on free will already. You can't make the feeling just go away once it arises.

What you have done is to recondition your fear response over time. Again, this isn't willing your fear away when it arises, but reconditioning the fear response itself.

Now here is where I get harsh with you. Why did you decide to get rid of your fear response to the dark? It could be that you had other desires that necessitated the ridding of this response. It might have been normative images of masculinity, it could have been a desire to hang out in dark places. It doesn't matter, some other value was strong enough to move you to recondition your fear response. SO where is the free will here? One value you held (most likely subrationally) mandated that your fear of the dark be reconditioned, so you figured out a way to recondition that fear and did so. It looks to me like a desire forced you to take action. Where is the great choice here? What would it mean to choose to stay afraid of the dark

MOreover, ask yourself this. Why did you decide to overcome your fear? Obviously, you valued a proper fear response to an irrational one. But why did you so value? What made it rational to not fear the dark? Again, this was a value judgement based on some value you held that made the fear of the dark irrational. Just where do you think all thses values come from?

To be a bit more concilatory, free will does not mean the ability to do whatever you like when you like. As above, you cannot just will fear away when it appears. Likewise, the rest of us who did occassionally freeze up when asking girls out in high school (again, another subrational effect - maybe you experienced this too but just rationalized it some way thereby making it your own "choice" ) simple could not force ourselves forward. Whatever adloscent anxieties about sexuality and body image took control and all the willing in the world wasn't going to do jack **** about it. After awhile, you grow out of it. But nobody chooses to be axious or afraid. So if there is a free will, it is more constrained than you are makingit out to be.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by The Templar
Now here is where I get harsh with you.

Good, he needs it. Free will does not mean magical power. Free will doesn't allow people to always make correct decisions and achieve any goal they dream.

[Velociryx]

Regarding my fear of the dark....I simply decided that it was impractical to be afraid of the dark, upon taking note of the fact that the world itself did not fundamentally change....merely the amount of illumination present. So, rather than choosing to invent any number of phantasms and other creepy-crawlies lurking in the shadows waiting to devour me, I simply acknowledged that the only difference was one of illumination. No biggie = no fear.

Any fear can be trained or conditioned out that very same way. Choose to, or not.

And Kid, please get over yourself. Nowhere have I said (EVER) that free will amounted to magical powers, or somehow gifted people with the ability to succeed at any goal they select.

Opportunity exists. Success is not automatic. Why you can't seem to get these two (fairly simple) notions thru that wonderfully thick skull of yours, I do not really know. Nor can I fathom what your fascination is with putting words into my mouth.

-=Vel=-

[Japher]

Fear is a result of ignorance. Educate yourself, find the error in your reasoning or logic, or improve your intelligence and the fear will vanish... On less, of course, you are afraid of sharks. Then no amount knowledge about sharks would make you less fearful.

[Velociryx]

Or live inland....at 100-odd miles from the beach, that's one mighty talented shark, that can reach out and touch me!

-=Vel=-
(who has no fear of sharks, as there are no sharks where I live)