Tony Martin and stuff

[Drake Tungsten]

Normal good working people not being able to afford healthcare isn't right.

Neither is having normal good working people forced to shoot burglars because the police can't protect them.

[Solly]

..and then jailed for doing it.

[MikeH]

Forced to shoot a 16 year old kid in the back from 4 feet with a shotgun? I agreed that the police need to do more about this kind of thing. Thames Valley Police, where I live, have a new focus on this kind of crime. Helps having stopped officers working against cannabis users/dealing. So now they are trying to build up cases against people so they can prosecute them. Burglary is a tough crime to track if the criminal is sensible enough to wear gloves.

BTW Martin'd already had his gun/licence removed for previous 'innappropriate use' so his shotgun was also an illegal firearm.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
If the burgler sees you with a gun and is running away, you shouldn't be able to shoot him.

That depends on how good a shot you are.

Now, if he's running away with something he stole from you, I'm not sure what I'd say in that case. I guess he should be able to shoot to incapacitate him (like in the leg or something), but not to kill.

How do you define intent in a case like that?

[Whaleboy]

I guess the thing is, WHEN IN YOUR OWN HOME, that if your shooting or stabbing an intruder, then because it is your private property, it becomes a case of the theif merely being in the way of your bullets or knife. I'm not aware of any law that prevents me discharging a firearm or slashing a knife in my own home. It is the burglers fault for being there in the first place. Obviously, there is a common sense limit to that, which Martin breached imo.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by elijah
I guess the thing is, WHEN IN YOUR OWN HOME, that if your shooting or stabbing an intruder, then because it is your private property, it becomes a case of the theif merely being in the way of your bullets or knife. I'm not aware of any law that prevents me discharging a firearm or slashing a knife in my own home.

Where discharging a firearm is concerned, there are several laws that could be invoked. Not with the knife, however.

You'd still be ****ged under the law if you killed someone- you'd be causing GBH whilsts intending to do so or reckless to the fact that it might happen. That'll do to bring murder charges.

[MikeH]

By that rationale there should be no penalty for killing your wife/children/friends/the Jehovah's witness you just let in in your own home then.

[Gibsie]

Doesn't work if you invited them in. Don't you watch the Simpons?!

[MikeH]

A yes, the ultimate guide to British law.

[Soul Survivor]

he shouldn't be convicted of murder, but unless your life or someone else's life is being directly threatened its not right to use deadly force, he could have just shot him in the leg or just shot somewhere else to scare the **** out of him

i'm not sure if he deserves jailtime, but definitely probation, fines and he should lose his rights to own a gun

[MikeH]

He had already lost his gun rights.

Just out of interest, what kind of punishments do you get in the US for posession of an illegal weapon?

[Soul Survivor]

well if he shouldn't have had the gun in the first place, lock him up and throw away the key

[Imran Siddiqui]

Mike, I'm an American, and I think he should have been charged for murder . If the guy is running away then killing him is not reasonable force. You can only use deadly force if you are concerned for your own life... shooting a guy in the back running away from your house doesn't fall under that definition.

[MikeH]

Yeah, that's basically what I think.

[Gibsie]

Originally posted by MikeH
A yes, the ultimate guide to British law.

Not law, but morality, which is international, man.