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**Ming** · July 22, 2003, 23:35

Originally posted by GePap
Wrong: I would complai just as much if the firng from the left had as much power in destroying the political culture of the US as the fring of the right. They don't have as much power to do it.

So you are really saying that there is no difference... both sides are equally pond scum, including your side.

Your whole point seem to be that since one is more effective, it makes it worse.

Let me clue you in one last time... anybody that does is scum, whether it's more effective or not... it's still wrong, and VERY BAD.

**Ming** · July 22, 2003, 23:38

Originally posted by GePap
I never hear old fashioned conservatives peak of building a grander future. I would say that in general, Conservatives have a dim view of the abilities of man,

Now your biases are really showing... OH PLEASE... I guess your group is the only one that can have a grander future as a goal... and I guess your group is the only one that doesn't have a dim view of the ablities of man... yeah, right...

Thanks for coming up and showing your biases so clearly for everybody to see.

**Ogie Oglethorpe** · July 22, 2003, 23:39

Originally posted by GePap

I never hear old fashioned conservatives peak of building a grander future. I would say that in general, Conservatives have a dim view of the abilities of man, so that anyone who gets the view that they can "create" new institutions and fomrs out of thin air and make the world a better place thus will fail. Why perhaps they like the market so much: the market may lead to a better future, but by accident, by slow progress without direction, and hence, free of the corruption man may bring to the table with some grandiose project.

nowm every so often you get people like neo-cons, who still have their early liberals dreams of change by policy of man (most neo-cons begin as liebrals) but change their view of what the aimsn should be.

Au Contrare (sp?)

Conservatives have little faith in the instituations and beuracracy of man and much faith in the individual.

The shared goals are to have a better tomorrow but the crux of the dispute is through what mechanism and what role and scope of power the governement should have.

**Dinner** · July 22, 2003, 23:41

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

liberals are nowhere near as common to make the claim that being conservative equals being unpatriotic.

I'd rather be called 'unpatriotic' rather than being called, as I am called, 'evil'.

Imran: I would never call you unpatriotic, or a baby killer, or any other such nonsense. In fact I try very hard not to bandy about such name calling. I also try very hard to think of how the other side sees things which is why I often come down in the middle of many issues.

When I started this thread I had a very proticular incident in my mind where a very unenlightened individual attacked me as being an unpatriotic America hater when he didn't know a damn thing about me. I pointed out that I was a vetrain and that someone who hated America probably wouldn't volunteer to defend the country, but, this idiot and his friends continued to flame me simply because I pointed out that all Democrats didn't hate America and, yes, some Democratic politicians actually made America a better place.

That's the type of neanderthal I can do with out no matter which party he supports.

**Odin** · July 22, 2003, 23:42

Originally posted by Ming

both sides are equally pond scum, including your side.

Hey!!! I'm not a Cyanobacterium.

**loinburger** · July 22, 2003, 23:42

Originally posted by Gepap
And we have right wingers here too? So?

What do you mean, "so"? I'm addressing the original point. What's the problem?

Originally posted by Oerdin
This uber-"I hate everyone else who's different" mentality seems to be well seated in the far right

Originally posted by loinburger
Poly has its fair share of left wingers who love to say that all Republicans are evil. (They use that very word: evil. Not "unpatriotic" or "booger-faced" or whatever, but "evil.")

Put in plain English, "You're wrong, Oerdin." Happy now?

**GePap** · July 22, 2003, 23:45

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe

Au Contrare (sp?)

Conservatives have little faith in the instituations and beuracracy of man and much faith in the individual.

The shared goals are to have a better tomorrow but the crux of the dispute is through what mechanism and what role and scope of power the governement should have.

What does faith in the individual mean? Do conservaitves have faith in The Glorious Leader who shall come and make the world better?

You say conservaitves have little faith in institutions? What about Church, Country, and Family? You don;t get more institutionalized than that.

An individual can only change the world through an instutition, and significant chnage can usually happen only thorught he creation of a NEW institution.

**Ming** · July 22, 2003, 23:47

Well Oerdin...

I will state it again in a different way...

All forums have jerks and morons that call people names and insult people. At the forum you are refering to, you were called unpatriotic because of your political views and for no other reason.

Here... conservatives are called evil and many other nasty things just because of their political views...

That' life...

So why make a thread abusing one whole group of people just because of the actions of a few. Your title is offensive to all republicans... so in a way, you are doing the exact same thing that seems to be pissing your off about the other site. You are judging a whole group of people solely on their policital affiliation...

Does that make my POV a little more clear for you.

**GePap** · July 22, 2003, 23:48

Originally posted by loinburger
Put in plain English, "You're wrong, Oerdin." Happy now?

Actually:

Oerdin say (paraphrase): Hate is common in the far right.

Loin says (paraphrase): POly has many Left winger that hate.

How is what you said a negation of what he said? You never addressed the idea that hate is common in the far right, only said "ditto for the far left.

**Ogie Oglethorpe** · July 22, 2003, 23:49

Come on GePap,

Too much baiting on this one.

Think opportunity and not entitlement.

Handup not handout.

Faith in oneself and not the government.

**Dinner** · July 22, 2003, 23:50

Originally posted by loinburger
Put in plain English, "You're wrong, Oerdin." Happy now?

Can you please tell me what I'm wrong about again? Seriously, I think we're talking about two different things.

**Ming** · July 22, 2003, 23:55

Originally posted by Oerdin
Can you please tell me what I'm wrong about again?

While I can't answer for him... I will say you are wrong for doing the same thing here that you are accusing people of another forum doing to you.

Yes... YOU ARE WRONG to do so.

**loinburger** · July 22, 2003, 23:56

Oerdin: I read "well seated in the far right" to mean "most prevalent in the far right" or perhaps even "based almost exclusively in the far right." The fact that the thread singles out Republicans lends credence to this paraphrasing (though some have broadened their horizons to cover all conservatives in this spanktification).

**Dinner** · July 23, 2003, 00:00

Originally posted by Ming
Well Oerdin...

I will state it again in a different way...

All forums have jerks and morons that call people names and insult people. At the forum you are refering to, you were called unpatriotic because of your political views and for no other reason.

Here... conservatives are called evil and many other nasty things just because of their political views...

That' life...

So why make a thread abusing one whole group of people just because of the actions of a few. Your title is offensive to all republicans... so in a way, you are doing the exact same thing that seems to be pissing your off about the other site. You are judging a whole group of people solely on their policital affiliation...

Does that make my POV a little more clear for you.

Ok, you are talking about the thread title. If you like you can change it by eliminating the word Republican and just make it "Pigheadedness".

I did take special care to say that not all Republicans are like this and that pigheadedness comes in "all shapes and sizes" meaning from all parts of the spectrium. I guess I should have made this point even more clear and I shall try to do so in the future.

That said I admite that wrong is wrong no matter who does it or how much they do it, but, I would say the far right displays this proticular trait to a greater degree then the far left (as opposed to the moderate right or left or even the centrists) It is a matter of degrees of wrongness I guess which maybe splitting hairs but still...

**Ogie Oglethorpe** · July 23, 2003, 00:04

Sign of the times.

In the 60's & 70's it was the left that was rabidly calling conservatives baby killers and evil for the involvement in Vietnam.

It will swing the other way sooner or later and then the fringe left will do their damage to the system.

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Republican pigheadedness.

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