US and Korea "Slipping Into War"

[TCO]

Oh...and I love how you all want to blame W, for a regime which is a bad actor and should have had its wings clipped years ago when it would have been easier. Same deal as with Iraq. And same deal with the bubble. Typical Clinton crap.

[Q Classic]

Oh...and I love how you all want to blame W, for a regime which is a bad actor and should have had its wings clipped years ago when it would have been easier. Same deal as with Iraq. And same deal with the bubble. Typical Clinton crap.

i'm not blaming w for the situation. i'm blaming him for exacerbating it.
if gore were in power, we'd still have this same ***** of an affair.
if we'd had the balls, we'd've given macarthur free reign to smash those damned stalinists and maoists.
we didn't.
now we need a much better, much more coherent and clear policy on dealing with the north, one which is not forthcoming from the bush administration.
ignoring this will not make it go away, just as not calling it a crisis didn't change the fact that it was a crisis.

i'm sorry if you're so mad that people have been ragging on bush. i can't say i feel that bad for you, because american politics in the last twelve years have been even dirtier and nastier than i remember the 80s being.

[Drake Tungsten]

if we'd had the balls, we'd've given macarthur free reign to smash those damned stalinists and maoists.

I thought you were against seeing the Korean Peninsula turned to glass?

now we need a much better, much more coherent and clear policy on dealing with the north, one which is not forthcoming from the bush administration.

Why don't you tell us what your "coherent and clear policy" would be in regards to the North? I'm all ears.

[TCO]

He is doing the right thing by letting Kim jump up and down. People like you who want to react are helping Kim and not helping the situation. The way to grasp a nettle is firmly. Keep your eye on the ball. We have very little ability to "manipulate" the NK. The current policy is better than public reaction which exacerbates the pressure that they are already trying to put on us, to get a bribe. No point in making public remarks. It only hurts us. This is a big stick, small words time.

[DarthVeda]

Frankly I'd love to see the NK regime try something. Scratch one more off that axis of evil. Dubya is like a superhero, freeing the world from evil!

And technically we are still in a state of war with North Korea. A permanent peace treaty was never signed.

[Q Classic]

I thought you were against seeing the Korean Peninsula turned to glass

i'm against seeing the korean peninsula turned into glass.
i have much less of a problem seeing manchuria turned into glass. macarthur wanted nukes to beat off the chinese by hitting them in their home territory, expanding the war from just the peninsula.
sounds callous, yes, but in my eyes it would have been worth it to have a unified, democratic korea.

Why don't you tell us what your "coherent and clear policy" would be in regards to the North? I'm all ears.

from a post in the other thread, this is my take on it:
if you're talking about my disdain for bush, it's because i want bush to come up with a very clear policy on how to deal with the north. this ignoring them bit obviously isn't working. i don't think acting belligerent to the north will help matters either. i don't think we should cave into their demands for more aid unless it's coupled with a very clear reciprocation on their part which can be independently--and rigorously--verified. i think this interdiction is a good idea. and i think bush should send an envoy for bilateral talks, with multilateral observers.

He is doing the right thing by letting Kim jump up and down. People like you who want to react are helping Kim and not helping the situation. The way to grasp a nettle is firmly. Keep your eye on the ball. We have very little ability to "manipulate" the NK. The current policy is better than public reaction which exacerbates the pressure that they are already trying to put on us, to get a bribe. No point in making public remarks. It only hurts us. This is a big stick, small words time.

we'll just have to agree to disagree. i will admit i've got a bias here, that of not wanting to see the peninsula dissolve into war again and possibly losing my extended family (the ones i know of and the lost ones in the north).

Frankly I'd love to see the NK regime try something.

i wouldn't, simply because of the reason i list above.

And technically we are still in a state of war with North Korea. A permanent peace treaty was never signed.

yes, yes we are. which gives us a lot more freedom.
i will never understand why skorea put so many of its eggs so close to the dmz. that eliminates our freedom.

[Drake Tungsten]

and i think bush should send an envoy for bilateral talks, with multilateral observers.

Bilateral talks are horrible policy for the U.S. Engaging in them would once again place all the responsiblity for controlling North Korea on America and would allow South Korea, Japan and China to continue free-riding. Bush is doing the right thing; make it clear that only multilateral negotiations will be accepted and then wait for the powers in Asia to get off their asses and take some responsibility. It's their region, so they should have to bear some of the burden for controlling the black sheep of East Asia.

[Q Classic]

the only big issue i see with allowing the east asians to take the lead is that they're scared of going one way and finding that they're not backed by america. they don't want to be left high and dry, so their hesitance, as i see it, is somewhat understandable.

"let the big kid handle it"--they want to pass the buck.

[Drake Tungsten]

"let the big kid handle it"--they want to pass the buck.

It would be stupid of America to let them "pass the buck." We can't take care of every problem in the world.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
the only big issue i see with allowing the east asians to take the lead is that they're scared of going one way and finding that they're not backed by america. they don't want to be left high and dry, so their hesitance, as i see it, is somewhat understandable.

"let the big kid handle it"--they want to pass the buck.

Is leaving them on their own, "high and dry"? They want help, they can ask for it nicely. Enough with the spoiled children biching at mommy and then expecting to get treats.

[Drake Tungsten]

Enough with the spoiled children biching at mommy and then expecting to get treats.

Amen to that. God knows we don't want our Asian allies to turn out like our European ones.

[TCO]

Q-cubed, you don't let a bully make you change your policy too quickly (or at all). That makes you a punk. You have some really crappy ideas. Like bilateral negotiations. That would only make sense if we had freedom of action (i.e. that the SK, Japs would back us in whatever we do). Really bad idea.

You can't let your unhappiness with the situation make you lose sight of the cold realities. Letting a punk make you dance helps nothing.

[Q Classic]

It would be stupid of America to let them "pass the buck." We can't take care of every problem in the world.

which is the single bright spot in all of bush's efforts in the region, to try and convince the others to come in.

[Q Classic]

Q-cubed, you don't let a bully make you change your policy too quickly (or at all).

bush's policy towards nkorea, if you haven't noticed, has flip-flopped a few times during his tenure...
if he went with one policy and stuck it it, we'd've been a lot better off.

we'll disagree on the bilateral negotiations bit. i think it's a good idea until we can finally convince the others to join in by carrot-and-stick diplomacy.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Q Cubed

Q-cubed, you don't let a bully make you change your policy too quickly (or at all).

bush's policy towards nkorea, if you haven't noticed, has flip-flopped a few times during his tenure...
if he went with one policy and stuck it it, we'd've been a lot better off.

we'll disagree on the bilateral negotiations bit. i think it's a good idea until we can finally convince the others to join in by carrot-and-stick diplomacy.

Pathetic. What will it accomplish. Rediculous. Counterproductive.