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Nice post LotM.
Its nce to get a break from some elements.
Its nce to get a break from some elements.
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If you don't like reality, change it! me
"Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw -
IMO, there are militants and proponents of violence on all sides, as well as pacifists. On the right, there are true advocates of Pro-Life. People that disagreed with the war, that believe the DP to be immoral, as well as objecting to abortion. Conversely, there are militant radicals on the left that believe the use of violence is justified in promoting their cause.
I don't associate peace with the left any more than war on the right. Some people just have silly stereotypes. It's called ignorance.To us, it is the BEAST.Comment
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Actually commies like you are the criminals.Originally posted by Sava
Kissinger is a war criminal and should be put to death. But to Fez, he's a credible source.
For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)Comment
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Re: Pacifist conservatives and war-hawk leftists...
Left wing is normally for the people. The people don't wan't to fight for the interests of the elite. The elite want them to.Originally posted by Albert Speer
i just noticed something that Frozzy posted that has been echoed a hundred times on apolyton...
why is pacificism seen as left-wing? where the **** did this idea come from that leftists want peace and rightists are all war-like?I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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The fascist is back.Originally posted by Fez
Actually commies like you are the criminals.I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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I view the divide between pacifism/hawkishness to be more of a divide between libertarians/authoritarians than between the left/right. (libertarian with a little 'L' -- pacifism/hawkishness does not inherently have anything to do with economics, so you can have little-l libertarians on the left or the right.)<p style="font-size:1024px">HTML is disabled in signatures </p>Comment
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Finland was never fascistic or communist, and a vast majority never wanted either fascism or communism.Finland, Lithuania, Roumania, Bulgaria, Portugal, etc.? many of them were straight up elected or if not officially, it was clear that the vast majority wanted fascism or communism."Spirit merges with matter to sanctify the universe. Matter transcends to return to spirit. The interchangeability of matter and spirit means the starlit magic of the outermost life of our universe becomes the soul-light magic of the innermost life of our self." - Dennis Kucinich, candidate for the U. S. presidency
"That’s the future of the Democratic Party: providing Republicans with a number of cute (but not that bright) comfort women." - Adam Yoshida, Canada's gift to the worldComment
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You are a Stalinist.Originally posted by Kidicious
The fascist is back. Who next are you gonna have shot for your undying love for Karl Marx and arbitrary view of economics?
For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)Comment
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kissinger a war criminal who should be executed? god damn... where do your communists get this stuff?"Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
"I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben KenobiComment
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No, I don't know much about the Spanish Civil War, and I'm not an arrogant foreigner. The accounts of George Orwell and Ernest Heimingway didn't seem biased at all, and according to them it was pretty much only the rich in support of Franco.
OK. I'm a leftist, but that sounds to me like a VERY biased statement. Just because you're a leftist doesn't mean the rightists (i've never heard anyone say rightist before, but I don't understand why...rightist sounds fine) don't care about the people. This thread has been pretty much a bunch of crazy statements. ie I'm not a fan of Kissinger either but I wouldn't call him a war criminal.Left wing is normally for the people."The first man who, having fenced off a plot of land, thought of saying, 'This is mine' and found people simple enough to believe him was the real founder of civil society. How many crimes, wars, murders, how many miseries and horrors might the human race had been spared by the one who, upon pulling up the stakes or filling in the ditch, had shouted to his fellow men: 'Beware of listening to this imposter; you are lost if you forget the fruits of the earth belong to all and that the earth belongs to no one." - Jean-Jacques RousseauComment
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John:
what about the Spanish military and the Catholic Church? both of which were very much in support of Franco... and thats not even paying attention to the fact that there were more middle class or under people in support of Franco which i'm sure Fez could elaborate on."Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
"I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben KenobiComment
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They got themselves involved in the wrong place. They had no right. Also the statement " only the rich were supportive of Franco" is nonsense.Originally posted by johncmcleod
No, I don't know much about the Spanish Civil War, and I'm not an arrogant foreigner. The accounts of George Orwell and Ernest Heimingway didn't seem biased at all, and according to them it was pretty much only the rich in support of Franco.
That is another issue I have with many who call themselves leftists.OK. I'm a leftist, but that sounds to me like a VERY biased statement. Just because you're a leftist doesn't mean the rightists (i've never heard anyone say rightist before, but I don't understand why...rightist sounds fine) don't care about the people.For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)Comment
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The only reason Franco mustered up enough forces was because of his overwhelming support. It was mainly economical... the economy was a mess because of mismanagement and the people wanted a leader who would change things. The notion that the communists had any major support is incorrect. Thus they were soundingly defeated.Originally posted by Albert Speer
John:
what about the Spanish military and the Catholic Church? both of which were very much in support of Franco... and thats not even paying attention to the fact that there were more middle class or under people in support of Franco which i'm sure Fez could elaborate on.For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)Comment
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They got themselves involved in the wrong place. They had no right.
Orwell went over to Spain to volunteer to help fascism, what's wrong with that.
It probably had to do with where they were in Spain. When Barcelona was in its period of anarchy almost all the lower middle class people were lower or middle class were anarchists and communists and the rich people dressed up poor so they wouldn't look like a Franco supporter.
Tons of catholic churches were burned down by lower and middle class people. They were fed up with the church having so much power....and the Catholic Church? both of which were very much in support of Franco
I'm going to stop talking about the Spanish Civil War because it is something I never have wanted to study. Instead of being cut and dry like the American Civil War it seems a big mess of political parties and different sides. BTW I could've sworn you said you were from Argentina."The first man who, having fenced off a plot of land, thought of saying, 'This is mine' and found people simple enough to believe him was the real founder of civil society. How many crimes, wars, murders, how many miseries and horrors might the human race had been spared by the one who, upon pulling up the stakes or filling in the ditch, had shouted to his fellow men: 'Beware of listening to this imposter; you are lost if you forget the fruits of the earth belong to all and that the earth belongs to no one." - Jean-Jacques RousseauComment
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I don't care what group he supported. This war should of remained national.Originally posted by johncmcleod
Orwell went over to Spain to volunteer to help fascism, what's wrong with that.
Most of the country was in support of Franco, hence the greater amount of forces Franco managed to amass. All the communists were killed and done away with in the proper manner so they wouldn't screw up another country.It probably had to do with where they were in Spain. When Barcelona was in its period of anarchy almost all the lower middle class people were lower or middle class were anarchists and communists and the rich people dressed up poor so they wouldn't look like a Franco supporter.
The church didn't really have much power after the Civil War either... my family knows several priests and bishops who were routinely arrested by Franco's Secret Police. Well that is something my grandmother told me.Tons of catholic churches were burned down by lower and middle class people. They were fed up with the church having so much power.
Stop acting stupid.BTW I could've sworn you said you were from Argentina.For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)Comment
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