TIME: "Why America is Running Out of Gas"

[Sava]

Relatively speaking they are better.

Relative to you maybe

And btw, I don't think they are anything close to equally evil. The Taliban are up there with the most evil.

Your opinion is based upon your limited knowledge of the two parties in question. Ultimately, I think such a discussion is irrelevant... similar to "who was more evil, Jeffrey Dahmer or John Wayne Gacey?"...

remember... the US supported Stalin against Hitler. But I don't think there's any question that both were equally as evil. IIRC, don't you believe Stalin and his ilk were worse than Nazis?

okay enough.. no more threadjacking

[Felch]

Originally posted by Sava
two completely different things... the "war on drugs" is a war against America's dependence on substances... the "war on terror" and the "war on Iraq" are war's against people who want to kill us.

FelchSo you have no idea what we are talking about, yet have the audacity to question my understanding? please... don't participate if you are just here to insult people...

Actually I have an internship in the field and have read (and summarized for my bosses) significant amounts of documentation about it. I heard Greenspan's testimony before the House Energy and Commerce Committee about natural gas prices from only about twenty feet away. I know about the issue. I just don't care to read about it when I'm not at work, and don't feel like putting up with you talking about SUVs which have nothing to do with natural gas.

[Sava]

Actually I have an internship in the field and have read (and summarized for my bosses) significant amounts of documentation about it. I heard Greenspan's testimony before the House Energy and Commerce Committee about natural gas prices from only about twenty feet away. I know about the issue. I just don't care to read about it when I'm not at work, and don't feel like putting up with you talking about SUVs which have nothing to do with natural gas.

Well if you bothered to stop insulting and trolling and read the article, then you'd know that conservation and fuel efficiency are also topics for discussion.

So read the article... or go away... I'm lazy and don't want to have to ignore you.

[Az]

Well if you bothered to stop insulting and trolling and read the article, then you'd know that conservation and fuel efficiency are also topics for discussion.

So read the article... or go away... I'm lazy and don't want to have to ignore you.

[Sandman]

I'm rather fond of wind-power, myself. No fiddly yet to be developed technology, reasonably constant, ecologically benign and it uses windswept areas which have little other economic use.

On fusion, I'm both sceptical and nervous. Firstly, fusion has been on the drawingboard for fifty years and nothing hs come of it. Secondly, we'd still be using the heat generated to heat water and spin turbines, just like two hundred years ago. This is not especially efficient. Thirdly, with unlimited energy, we'd have no incentive to conserve energy, and large-scale fusion would create risks of global warming, simply by heating the planet up.

[Imran Siddiqui]

IIRC, don't you believe Stalin and his ilk were worse than Nazis?

No, Stalin gets 2nd place on the list.

[Felch]

Oh wow, Sava called me a troll. I should run away and hide because he hurt his feelings.

The fact that I have not once insulted you in this thread makes me wonder why you said I should stop insulting and trolling, but who cares about that. . .

Or, I could ignore the fact that he knows nothing but clichés and continue pissing him off.

I read the first paragraph, and you're right, it is about gasoline and natural gas. So one point for you. Natural gas prices still are affected more by increasing environmental regulation than anything else so I stand by that statement.

the Bush admin gives tax CREDITS for SUV's.

The SUVs have to be a legitimate business expense to earn the tax credit. In other words, they have to be used as light trucks, not as cars. Of course people with good lawyers will get around that, but you can't blame the administration or lawmakers for the ways that underhanded people will manipulate laws. And you should be more complete and honest with your information in any event.

the industry isn't giving consumers the choice between huge gas guzzlers and efficient vehicles. The industry average in fuel consumption has gone down since 1987.

You're misrepresenting statistics and drawing an invalid conclusion. The average fuel consumption has declined because of the increased market share of SUVs, which are considered light trucks for CAFE purposes. Fuel efficient vehicles are available, and are more efficient than ever. They just aren't popular.

we can't make a gas-powered sedan that can do better than 30 mpg...

The problem is not Big Oil. The problem is that in order to meet CAFE standards, automakers reduce the weight of vehicles, and make them less crashworthy as a result. If you were going to get in a crash in a Geo Metro or in a Toyota Camry, which would you prefer?

And after that you pretty much threadjacked your own thread.

[Felch]

Originally posted by Sandman
large-scale fusion would create risks of global warming, simply by heating the planet up.

WTF?

[Sandman]

Each fusion plant is like a little sun. Imagine the effect of a couple of hundred little suns scattered across the Earth. All the energy they generate will eventually turn back into heat, and will raise the temperature of the planet.

[Odin]

Originally posted by Felch
WTF?

Wast heat from the reactor, But is is not enough to cause global warming.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Azazel
Sadly, I don't see good american cars, anymore.

Well, 'cept Ford, but I don't think those are manufactured in the US.

ummmmm...

[Imran Siddiqui]

Each fusion plant is like a little sun. Imagine the effect of a couple of hundred little suns scattered across the Earth. All the energy they generate will eventually turn back into heat, and will raise the temperature of the planet.

The problem with this analysis is that the energy WILL get used. It will power our homes and offices, etc. The waste heat that will come from Fusion power will probably be much less than that from current Fossil Fuel usage.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Sandman
Each fusion plant is like a little sun. Imagine the effect of a couple of hundred little suns scattered across the Earth. All the energy they generate will eventually turn back into heat, and will raise the temperature of the planet.

Yes, but it radiates into space. The global warming problem is that greenhouse gases prevent heat from radiating into space, not the generation of additional heat.

Plus, the "little sun" analogy is just plain wrong. They have the same MECHANICS as the sun, but not NEARLY the same power.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Sava
that's strange... your president is telling me we're at war...

considering my beliefs are based upon facts and empirical evidence... and considering my opposition is based upon unsubstantiated ideology... yeah... they are usually either lying or wrong. And when I'm wrong, I have no bones about accepting it and changing my opinions. Look up pragmatic in the dicitionary, and you'll see my face. Ironically, you could look up 4sshole and also see my pic..

Hey, good luck on your ego trip -- let us know when you come back.

[Az]

Originally posted by Sandman
Each fusion plant is like a little sun. Imagine the effect of a couple of hundred little suns scattered across the Earth. All the energy they generate will eventually turn back into heat, and will raise the temperature of the planet.

Since we will amazingly lower the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere by stopping using fossil fuel, that heat will radiate away.