Things which piss me off.... Teachers sprouting ignorance!

[Kidlicious]

You still can't clearly define the difference between authoritarianism and totalitarianism except to say that totalitarianism is relatively less democratic since Che and I have successfully argued that totalitarianism is not absolute. Since there have been no absolute totalitarian fascist govts, only relatively undemocratic fascist govts, it follows that fascism is a relative term that simply means authoritarian capitalist government.

End of argument.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Kidicious

End of argument.

There are no arguments that have an end here on Apolyton. They always revive themselves sooner or later.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by MrFun




There are no arguments that have an end here on Apolyton. They always revive themselves sooner or later.

Ok from now on I will just label the fascists according to what has been established on this thread. If they want to deny that they are fine, but they will continue to be labeled as such.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Kidicious


Ok from now on I will just label the fascists according to what has been established on this thread. If they want to deny that they are fine, but they will continue to be labeled as such.

Oh -- when you join Apolyton, you be wise to purchase a high-quality flame suit to put on when the need for protection arises.

[Odin]

Originally posted by MrFun


Oh -- when you join Apolyton, you be wise to purchase a high-quality flame suit to put on when the need for protection arises.

No, you need a flame-resistant full-body covering with Flame resistant underwear.

[Imran Siddiqui]

You still can't clearly define the difference between authoritarianism and totalitarianism except to say that totalitarianism is relatively less democratic since Che and I have successfully argued that totalitarianism is not absolute. Since there have been no true totalitarian fascist govts, only relatively undemocratic fascist govts, it follows that fascism is a relative term that simply means authoritarian capitalist government.

Total Bull.

Totalitarianism means the government has centralized control over all facets of life. It crushes autonomous institutions.

Authoritarian is simply a dictatorial rule.

As GePap said:

And Facism goes beyond authoritarianism as [far] as politics is concerned.

Being authoritarian does not make one facist: Pinochet was authoritarian, but he did not do anything revolutionary

Therefore authoritarian does NOT equal Fascism, as I've been saying and GePap and I have proven. All authoritarians are not Fascists, even if the converse is true! Which is why it is silly to say that all Authoritarians are Fascist!

Mussolini and Hitler I'd argue were totalitarian Fascist governments. The state and party invaded all spheres of life. While capitalists had power, they had to become party leaders in order to keep that power (many of them did). The party ruled all. This isn't authoritarian... it goes beyond that. Totalitarianism isn't simply less democratic, it is a different beast.

You can't get Fascism without Totalitarianism... the whole system fails without it. Fascism requires the party to be in control of everything.

Furthermore, you still have to prove they were capitalists .

End of argument.

You're conceeding? Good .

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Furthermore, you still have to prove they were capitalists .

Been done.

[Imran Siddiqui]

ZZZT... nope. Try again .

You failed horribly at proving they were capitalists by saying you don't have to have a relatively free market to be capitalist .

[JCG]

Certain left-wingers want a wide definition of fascism to be able to call certain right-wingers fascist.

Certain right-wingers want a wide definition of communism to be able to call certain left-wingers communist.

Pretty much sums it up.

They are both wrong, of course...but it's a common mistake (and I won't deny that I've been equally wrong in similar discussions).

The point is, it's always better to call things by their proper names (unless you just want to insult/ slander/attack people for a political purpose).

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Totalitarianism means the government has centralized control over all facets of life. It crushes autonomous institutions.

Arendt was a bit more nuanced than that.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Arendt was a bit more nunanced than that.

It's a short definition. It's not comprehensive by any means.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
You failed horribly at proving they were capitalists by saying you don't have to have a relatively free market to be capitalist .

Idiot. That's not what I said. I gave you the definition from the Dictionary of Economics. Again, it states that capitalism does not require complete free markets.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I gave you the definition from the Dictionary of Economics. Again, it states that capitalism does not require complete free markets.

Whoever said you need 'complete' free markets. A decently free market will do fine.

The dictionary definition is woefully inadequate. As GePap said defining a complex political (or economic) system in a few words is bound be inaccurate.

No one within their right mind would consider a country capitalist if didn't have at least a major part of its economy subject to the free market.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
The dictionary definition is woefully inadequate.

So says you. It's pointless to show you how economists define economic terms, because you refuse to learn economics. Everything is politics to you Imran. You could care less about economics, and that will keep you ignorant of the subject matter.

[chequita guevara]

I think to be more correct we would say that the authoritarian government attempts to excerize control over everything. So far, they haven't yet been successful, accept maybe in Campodia and North Korea.