Things which piss me off.... Teachers sprouting ignorance!

[MrFun]

Conservative "correctness" in history:

The United States never did anything wrong in its history deliberately. The United States never made any mistakes, either.

[Evil Knevil]

Kropotkin, like the Svek avatar

We had an insipid version of the Scottish Wars of Independance forced apon us in Primary School --including the whole cave/spider myth. Thankfully my High School kicked it into touch slightly.

/boring if you don't know Scots history]

The Jacobite uprising were another issue. They've been romantically feted in our History lessons for ages. Thankfully change has filtered through and now its treated as a the romantic nonsense that it is. I remember our School caused an uproar by teaching that the lowland Scots shared more ethnicity with the English than the Highlanders, as well as the fact that it was mostly Scottish soldiers on the British side at Culloden.

/boring

I guess nationalist is still de jour in most histories. I think the Spanish get a horribly mutiliated version of the Reconquista, as well as the conquest (nee 'liberation') of the New World.

In our days the discovery of the New World was treated positively. Thankfully these days the unmentionable brutality of the Spanish/ Portugese/English/Americans is now well.... mentionable

[Sava]

Not even when you have a poster there that says he sat down at the library to check the footnotes?

big deal, do you believe everything you are told by online posters?

So I guess that means you never trust MtG when he makes his points?

I give reasonable consideration to MtG, but with a grain of salt.

[Kramerman]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


Erm, not quite. Read up on the "Yellow Journalism" of William Randolph Hearst. He thought it was in the best U.S. interest to go to war with Spain, and the Maine incident was just the catalyst he was looking for. There wasn't widespread speculation of the explosion being the fault of the Spanish until Hearst used his newspapers to make false accusations, spread rumors, etc., thereby manipulating public opinion to believe the Spanish were at fault.

Those in power, of course, would/should have known better, but they thought a war was a good idea, too.

this is was actually happened

[Kramerman]

i agree with the war, btw... just not the aftermath. There was a small push to make Cuba a state, which would have been interesting, but we allowed the cubans decide and they didnt want it. I thihnk its interesting that we gave them a choice (albeit with conditions... we got to write certain parts of their constitution, IIRC) and not hawaii, heh. but all the **** that happened afer that is one of the great tragedies of history. Cuba had and still has soooo much potential

[Odin]

And most US history books fail to mention that the Vikings were in Canada 500 years before Columbus. I am also sick of how they treat the Mexicans as the bad guys because they were "violating our liberty." It was an INVASION you stupid Texans. And how we conquered Hawaii is also tragic. It would be a flourishing Constitutional Monarchy now.

[Agathon]

Not wanting to be a pedant, but it is "spouting" ignorance, is it not?

[Kramerman]

Originally posted by Odin
And most US history books fail to mention that the Vikings were in Canada 500 years before Columbus. I am also sick of how they treat the Mexicans as the bad guys because they were "violating our liberty." It was an INVASION you stupid Texans. And how we conquered Hawaii is also tragic. It would be a flourishing Constitutional Monarchy now.

i see how taking hawaii was definately wrong, but im glad we did. Im also glad for Manifest Destiny, despite how 'wrong' that was.

[Whaleboy]

IMO, teachers shouldnt give opinions, or state them as empiricle facts, as in that case. Otherwise, its not unlike a mild form of indoctrination to one point of view, and I am of the opinion that education should be about allowing people to form their own views.

In that case, the teacher would say "this is nazi germany and this is bad", or "this is america and this is good ( )", but rather say "this is nazi germany", "this is america". After that, and being presented with neutral, unassuming historical information, the students can make up their own minds.

If the teacher does mention his opinion, he should state it as "this is my opinion, america is good", which serves as the basis of a debate that can follow that. Of course, whenever someone states something like that, we assume it to be their opinions, but kids and secondary school students are less likely to understand it, I used to default to; "my history says it, thus it is true".

[Imran Siddiqui]

And most US history books fail to mention that the Vikings were in Canada 500 years before Columbus.

Well ours did (in fact in an elementary school debate, I was the Viking guy saying that we hit America first), but in the end it isn't as important as Columbus. The Vikings entered and then left, leaving no substantial imprint.

And how we conquered Hawaii is also tragic. It would be a flourishing Constitutional Monarchy now.

It may, but I'm not sure. If the US left it alone (which probably wouldn't have happened), the British would probably take the Sandwich Islands, as they refered to it.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Sava
I give reasonable consideration to MtG, but with a grain of salt.

MtG bull****s as much as anyone. He also tells a lot of truth. You just have to give everything he says carefull consideration, like you do everyone. I don't know if Imran does that. I think he just says people like MtG tell the truth all the time because they have similar ideology, and similarly people with different ideologies always lie.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by elijah
IMO, teachers shouldnt give opinions, or state them as empiricle facts, as in that case. Otherwise, its not unlike a mild form of indoctrination to one point of view, and I am of the opinion that education should be about allowing people to form their own views.

In that case, the teacher would say "this is nazi germany and this is bad", or "this is america and this is good ( )", but rather say "this is nazi germany", "this is america". After that, and being presented with neutral, unassuming historical information, the students can make up their own minds.

If the teacher does mention his opinion, he should state it as "this is my opinion, america is good", which serves as the basis of a debate that can follow that. Of course, whenever someone states something like that, we assume it to be their opinions, but kids and secondary school students are less likely to understand it, I used to default to; "my history says it, thus it is true".

The teacher should only give opinion after the course is over and if the students ask him or her. During the course the teacher should present alternate view points, especially to the textbook view point. The teacher should also create an environment where students feel comfortable forming and talking about their opinions.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I think he just says people like MtG tell the truth all the time because they have similar ideology, and similarly people with different ideologies always lie.

You mean like you do?

No, I don't do that... Hell, che and Snowfire are some of my best buds here.

And if I thought MtG always told the truth, I'd be a Democrat... like he is.

[Whaleboy]

The teacher should only give opinion after the course is over and if the students ask him or her. During the course the teacher should present alternate view points, especially to the textbook view point. The teacher should also create an environment where students feel comfortable forming and talking about their opinions

Indeed, but when a teacher presents their views as fact, especially considering that they are in a position to give people "facts", then I find that unacceptable. If they give me the bare information, no editorialising, then I can form my own views. They can state their own opinions, but make it clear as kids dont assume its not necessarily fact. In that sense, their own views as "guidelines" or "suggestions" for those forming individual views, but not to be forced on people.

This kind of consideration in teachers of others views, or the limitations of ones own (particularly in the context of the classroom) will probably be difficult for most teachers, who, lets face it, in general weren't at the top of the queue when the big guy upstairs was handing out IQ scores. However, it is essential, and all the good teachers I've ever had have respected this.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
You mean like you do?

Oh, because I won't read the National Review. That's nothing but propaganda. Take Loewen for example. You called him a communist. He's not. He's just liberal. So we both have different ideologies than him. However, I was able to read his book and benefit from it, but you aren't. If I only read books written by communists I wouldn't know ****. I know that. You are the one that needs to explore other things besides right wing propaganda.