Things which piss me off.... Teachers sprouting ignorance!

[Imran Siddiqui]

I agree with his bashing of history textbooks, but it must be totally unsettling to find out that his footnotes are misleading and sometimes false. For a semi-historical books, that is unforgivable. Furthermore, the analysis of his out and out lies on Nathan Bedford Forrest, on that thread and on the linked thread is totally ridiculous.

[Sava]

but it must be totally unsettling to find out that his footnotes are misleading and sometimes false. For a semi-historical books, that is unforgivable.

examples??

you see Imran, if you are going to attempt to troll someone, you need to at least provide some evidence...

example: whenever I start an-anti-Bush themed thread, I always follow up my assertions with links from other people smarter than myself.

I think it's pretty said when my trolls are more powerful than most people's facts.

[Imran Siddiqui]

trying to discredit scholars with ad hom's... it's too bad your position is so weak and blatantly inaccurate that you can't even debate their conclusions.

Funny, Sava, you do exactly that with Fox News... which is probably just as biased as Mr. Loewen .

[Imran Siddiqui]

examples??

Did you even click on the linked thread .

Saying you always link on your trolls and ignoring other links is nicely dishonest for you .

[Sava]

sorry Imran, I don't count other online forums as credible sources...

[Imran Siddiqui]

Not even when you have a poster there that says he sat down at the library to check the footnotes?

So I guess that means you never trust MtG when he makes his points?

[GePap]

History is the stepchild of American education. It is way down on the totem pole, just above PE. After all, even the most historically ignorant git can serve you fries, be an accountant, desing computers programs, or be a stockbroker.

[monkspider]

I think Apolyton needs to chip in and get Imran copies of "A People's History..." and "Lies my teacher told me" for christmas.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I'll only read it when Sava reads all of Milton Freedman's political books and Hayek's 'Road to Serfdom' .

[Stefu]

Couldn't Imran just pop into the library to get People's History of the United States? That's what I did (I love American history, and this kind of 'hidden history' is always especially sure to tickle my fancy.)

How about Paul Johnson's "History of American People"? From what I've heard, it's the conservative equivalent of "People's History of United States", but I haven't been able to get it yet. I've read Johnson's "Modern Times", a history of the 20th century, and liked it well enough.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I haven't read either... I pick up bits and pieces of American History from various books and sources, rather than one biased source .

[Kropotkin]

The Main is pretty much like the Tonkin incident, another historical "truth".

History in school is, I suppose, always more or less untrue. Even the stupidest of pupils should have a decent chance of making the grade and the subject is thousand of years of the history of mankind (or the american case; just 200 years and one country). The result is facts and estimates so boiled down and compressed that the end result is a lie.

[Xeones]

for a slightly more radical collection of lies uncovered ... try You Are Being Lied To by disinformation press (disinfo.com)(see also Everything You Know Is Wrong). it is a compilation of articles on all sorts of subjects by a wide variety of authors, along the general theme of mis/dis-information. most of it is *superb*, although a few entries do border on conspiracy theory. (ie.. buzz aldrin's testimony of his encounters with flying saucers in his post-astronaut days as an AF test pilot)

re: history in schools...

one of the articles is about the theoretical background involved in the founding of the american educational system. the men who wrote the books that molded our school system had no shame at all that they were designing a system to create citizens who could do repetitive work all day without thinking too much or asking too many questions of the people in charge. they said very specifically that their goal was to have a small number of people leading the unthinking masses. complacence, conformity, and obedience are more important than reading, writing, and 'rithemetic. one of their influences was the prussian system which had been devised to strengthen their nation (with ignorant masses) after their defeat by napoleon. they had concluded that their population was 'soft' ... too much individuality, art and such.

while it has certainly evolved some with modern values (my teachers told me i could accomplish anything, but at the same time forced on me the BS of the system), it is no surprise to me that a system with such roots continues to churn out such ignorant and troubled people.

[Stefu]

the men who wrote the books that molded our school system had no shame at all that they were designing a system to create citizens who could do repetive work all day without thinking too much or asking too many questions of the people in charge.

There's a big, fascinating essay on this on Everything You Know Is Wrong (as Xeones probably knows.) I, too, recommend both of the books. Many of the essays are just super (although YABLT had a wee bit too many drug war essays and EYKIW's Lucre section was, shall we say, a bit underwhelming). I especially love YABTL's essays about Columbine, Al Gore, communist conspiracies and that 'parents have nothing to do with how their children turn up' thingy and EYKIW's essays about EU, Waco, the untouchables of India, prostitution, the so-called youth troubles, the aforementioned essay about public schools. and that "Postcards from the Planet of Freaks" essay. And all the Howard Bloom essays and interviews in both books.)

There's a third book out recently, BTW, called Abuse Your Illusions, but IMHO it doesn't measure that well. Many of the essays just didn't grab my attention and it didn't even have a reading list! Howard Bloom essay's top rate, though, as always.

[Kidlicious]

Conspiracy theories should be considered entertainment, but there are serious problems with the way social science is taught in the US. We've known about the problems for a long time, but nothing is ever done about it.