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What is your opinion of the United States?

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  • Personal opinion below:

    America has succeeded. No matter how you want to look at it, America ranks among the top, if not the very pinnacle of achievement in the modern age.

    The country went from being the ultimate underdog fighting what was then the very best and strongest that the old world could throw at it and....they won a war that they had absolutely no business winning.

    That sparked something in the American mindset, and it forced a certain self-evaluation that echoes through loud and clear today.

    Everything that was pivotal to the victory that should not have been ours is regarded as almost sacred, specifically because it worked (for us).

    Individualism - that works for us. That rugged sense of self reliance that says in no uncertain terms "I make my own future." If you don't think that played an important role in early US history, then I would put forth that you do not understand Americans or our piece of the North American continent very well.

    Hard work and diligence - We work here. A lot. Longer hours with less vacation than any other industrialized country. Why? Because it worked for us. It wasn't easy beating a globe spanning empire with a thousand year head start. It took constant hard WORK. It wasn't easy to carve a new nation out of the wilderness, but we did that too. We didn't do it by going on extended holiday, we did it by busting our collective a$$es and bending the land to our will. Again, it worked, and we saw the fruits of those labors manifest themselves in our surging strength on the world stage, surpassing nations that had been around ten centuries or longer than we had.

    People look at the country of my birth and wonder how it even continues to be. It is (compared to its European counterparts) so filled up with noise and violence that it often must appear to be little more than loosely guided anarchy, but it works for us. We love to fight, argue, debate loudly, and so forth. And we love our guns. That too, is a tradition left over from our earliest days. It was simple farmers with guns who defeated the armies of the Empire. Yeah, they get turned on our own citizens because we continue to support the old tradition that got us here, but it is BECAUSE of that old tradition that you won't see us giving up our guns anytime soon.

    It works for us, and we're damned proud that it does and has. We celebrate that constantly, much to the chagrin of a lot of other folks around the world.

    Where we get into trouble is with the assumption that because our ways have worked so well for us, we figure they must be globally exportable, so we're mystified when we step in somewhere and try to help (by bringing our methods--generally practical and time tested methods that we use ourselves--into a foriegn situation.

    The problem with that is that the foriegn situation is just that....foriegn. They have their own ways....ways that often clash with, or are at odds with the stuff we're proposing, and that's where the resentment and friction comes in.

    From the American POV, he's only trying to help, by demonstrating what he knows to be successful. From the foriegn perspective, the American is being insensitive to local customs and traditions, and is running roughshod over a thousand or more years of history.

    When the person from the other country makes this known in a less-than-happy tone, the American response is typically exhasperation.

    Least that looks like the root of it to me.

    -=Vel=-
    The list of published books grows. If you're curious to see what sort of stories I weave out, head to Amazon.com and do an author search for "Christopher Hartpence." Help support Candle'Bre, a game created by gamers FOR gamers. All proceeds from my published works go directly to the project.

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    • ok Pekka, now that makes sense

      and i must say, the "God bless america" crap really gets on my nerves too, as it does on most Americans who are not conservative christian. Even if i wern't agnostic/atheist, why would god show the US special favor? Its like when people pray to god that their football team will win... grrr... I doubt think power from a supreme being will decide the outcome, but rather the team that works harder/ is better/ is luckier will win.

      Or like Joan d' arc... why would Hod want the French to win? Why would an infite being take a side on earthly matters? she was nutz i tell ya...

      [/threadjack]
      "I bet Ikarus eats his own spunk..."
      - BLACKENED from America's Army: Operations
      Kramerman - Creator and Author of The Epic Tale of Navalon in the Civ III Stories Forum

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Velociryx
        Personal opinion below:

        America has succeeded...
        ... at the expense of others.

        And THAT'S what it comes down to.
        "I wrote a song about dental floss but did anyone's teeth get cleaner?" -Frank Zappa
        "A thing moderately good is not so good as it ought to be. Moderation in temper is always a virtue, but moderation in principle is always a vice."- Thomas Paine
        "I'll let you be in my dream if I can be in yours." -Bob Dylan

        Comment


        • hmmm... judging from the effort put into these posts and the quality of them, i must say this must be a subject of passion for many, from many perspectives.

          also, thanks for being civil, and not turning my thread into a

          ">>>USA! USA! USA!

          >>>Bush sucks ass! down with america!"

          type of thread
          "I bet Ikarus eats his own spunk..."
          - BLACKENED from America's Army: Operations
          Kramerman - Creator and Author of The Epic Tale of Navalon in the Civ III Stories Forum

          Comment


          • Sometimes, yes Cinch. And that has been true of every country that's ever existed. Don't single the USA out for that....we're not even in the same ballpark as some of those aforementioned European nations when it comes to succeeding at the expense of others.

            -=Vel=-
            The list of published books grows. If you're curious to see what sort of stories I weave out, head to Amazon.com and do an author search for "Christopher Hartpence." Help support Candle'Bre, a game created by gamers FOR gamers. All proceeds from my published works go directly to the project.

            Comment


            • What is your opinion of the United States?
              I likes it. It really brought democracy-in-action to the world stage, and for that I'll be ever-grateful.

              Now, I'm not such a big fan of the megacorporations it fosters. But that's not just America's fault, every country does it. America is just the most prolific at it. Plus, I'm a fan of the socialised medicine and energy and such, so I'd prefer it if the ol' U.S. had that going for it as well.

              But overall, I think America is a positive, and the people in there are just as great as everyone else.

              Except for the south. The south must burn!

              KIDDING!
              "I wrote a song about dental floss but did anyone's teeth get cleaner?" -Frank Zappa
              "A thing moderately good is not so good as it ought to be. Moderation in temper is always a virtue, but moderation in principle is always a vice."- Thomas Paine
              "I'll let you be in my dream if I can be in yours." -Bob Dylan

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Velociryx
                Sometimes, yes Cinch. And that has been true of every country that's ever existed. Don't single the USA out for that....we're not even in the same ballpark as some of those aforementioned European nations when it comes to succeeding at the expense of others.

                -=Vel=-
                True, exactly, yes. I actually said nearly the same thing in the post I typed at the same time you typed yours.

                But as you say, I'm sure the British Empire wasn't beloved the world over during its heyday, either. Superpowers are always disliked by many, and sometimes, with good reason.
                "I wrote a song about dental floss but did anyone's teeth get cleaner?" -Frank Zappa
                "A thing moderately good is not so good as it ought to be. Moderation in temper is always a virtue, but moderation in principle is always a vice."- Thomas Paine
                "I'll let you be in my dream if I can be in yours." -Bob Dylan

                Comment


                • I'd have to say I approve of America
                  Today, you are the waves of the Pacific, pushing ever eastward. You are the sequoias rising from the Sierra Nevada, defiant and enduring.

                  Comment


                  • Many things yes.. I don't know the reasons for individuals, but they can have many reasons..

                    I'm considered often stupid, because when ever I engage with someone, last time it was yesterday with buddies, that I was talking about how some companies are not raising the salaries of workers like they should, and that it at the end it hurts economy and everything else. Now while this is not necessraily a fact, it lead to '2000 euros per month IS enough' vs me alone 'no it's an insult if you work hard'. To me, you should make as much money as you deserve. You deserve it by how much you work in time and effort. And then how much the job should usually pay (so I don't say doctors and cleaners should make the same money). They always come up with 'well but you live with 2k well, so .. you're just being greedy, no one else is complaining'... yeah.. but you see my point. Many of my views are considered American and thus greedy. Then they go 'well if you're out of a job or sick, we take care of you, so you get paid less' and I counter 'yes, but I don't want that, I don't want you to take care of me if it means I have to take care about anyone else and so can't make the salaries I deserve, IF I deserve, I want the opportunity I want the chance'.. and they get angry 'well we have to pay for your etc with your tax money, you greedy bastard'.. . So, my views are not heard by default, because they think they know what it's all about. So if you identify yourself with American views, you get the same bashing as American would. Jerks are everywhere. But that's cool. Like I said, I'm the American defendor where it's tough and cold, right next to RUSSIA! YEAAA BRING IT ON!!! EOOHOOO!!111

                    I don't know what the hell this post had to do with this thread. I guess I wanted to show that I like America and that I was just being analytical in my former posts and that I don't have the facts about it, just speculating.

                    U S A ! U S A !
                    In da butt.
                    "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
                    THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
                    "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

                    Comment


                    • Except for the south. The south must burn!
                      no... really... it should

                      I'm a fan of the socialised medicine and energy
                      Im a fan of mixed medicine (especially pharmaceuticals. canada is way superior to us when it comes to the price of drugs... it pisses me off what they charge here)
                      "I bet Ikarus eats his own spunk..."
                      - BLACKENED from America's Army: Operations
                      Kramerman - Creator and Author of The Epic Tale of Navalon in the Civ III Stories Forum

                      Comment


                      • Excellent point, Cinch....no doubt, the British Empire had more than its share of detractors at its height, and the USA is certainly not exempted from that.

                        As for me, my opinion is biased by living here, but yeah, I love the place. It's crazy, violent, volatile, and fosters and rewards creativity....from an artist's perspective, that's a dream come true.

                        -=Vel=-
                        (and I'll ignore the comments re: the SOUTH!)

                        -Columbia, SC....as south as south gets!
                        The list of published books grows. If you're curious to see what sort of stories I weave out, head to Amazon.com and do an author search for "Christopher Hartpence." Help support Candle'Bre, a game created by gamers FOR gamers. All proceeds from my published works go directly to the project.

                        Comment


                        • What Pekka said makes a lot of sense

                          I think that we aren't so wrong being proud of our freedom and democracy. Despite the fact that we are the youngest civilization in the world, we also have the oldest constitution in the world, and the most stable government (we've lasted the longest). We pride ourselves on smooth transition of power - and were embarrassed by the 2000 election. We have a strong sense that we are right, but we usually recognize when we've done something wrong. We are somewhat stuck-up, at least in terms of knowing the rest of the world.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by elijah
                            You ever wonder what I'd be like if all the states in the USA leave the union, so you end up with a load of disperate countries.

                            Economically, I think its a pretty good idea!
                            Can I have some of what you're smoking?
                            A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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                            • Vel :
                              I wholly agree with what you said in your first post The problem doesn't come from the fact that you Americans are proud of your achievments (because these achievements are great indeed). The problem happens when you are exporting your methods and way of life while genuinely thinking they are good universally.

                              That's where the clash comes from IMHO. At the beginning of my argument earlier in this thread, I wanted to use ubernationalism as an illustration of this "It has worked for us so it must work everywhere" mentality. But I was much less eloquent than you.

                              Another problem is that, whether you want it or not, you are always exporting your values. As Pekka puts it, foreigners cannot avoid knowing about the US, knowing about the US' absolute self confidence, and forming opinions about it.

                              Despite an increase in ubernationalism within the US since Sept. 11, there seems to be some hints of a change in the American behaviour abroad. American cultural comapnies are beginning to invest in foreign made movies for foreign markets, which will hopefully result in the end of the flood of American mass-entertainment product in profit of a more international bouquet. The US troops, when capturing Iraqi cities, avoided to replace the Iraqi flag by the American flag. BTST (By the same token), the American soldiers recieved a small guide about Iraqi traditions, and how to respect them.
                              There is still a long way to go for the Americans to understand that foreign cultures are different, but the recent hints give some hope (which contrast with the internal chest-thumping btw).
                              "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
                              "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
                              "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

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                              • I don't care about Yanks bragging and flag waving. Nobody forces me to look at it or listen to it, I always can turn my back to them and go my way (well, or ignore their threads, for that matter). I find it hard to believe, that this is the reason to the poor reputation, that America suffers these days. Methinks it's rather the aggressive and violent politics of the Bush regime, what raises resentment against the United States. It's the "who's not with us, is against us", "love it or leave it" and nonsense like this. As a prove of this thesis may serve, that Americans always were flag waving Uberpatriots (well at least as long as I can think), but never their reputation was as bad as it's now. Not even during the Vietnam war. Bush succeeded to turn the huge sympathy bonus he had after Sept 11th into the opposite, in only one and a half year.

                                As for my personal opinion, I don't have anything against the United States as a country or Americans as people (heaven forbid, at the countrary). But I truly hate Bush and his neocon clique.

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