What is your opinion of the United States?

[Az]

[Imran Siddiqui]

Shi, you forgot that we have bigger Cheney's

[Kramerman]

Re American Pride
This, I think, is one of my problems with understanding international loathing of the US. I dont understand why they would dislike us because we are loud and proud of being americans. That seems kind of childish to me, adn i will explain:

See, it is in American culture to have team spirit. In high schools everywhere in the country pep ralleys are usually held seasonally, monthly, and sometimes even weekly. We like to root for the home team in all the sports and everything else. I mean, after San Antonio won the basketball championship, the city went ecstatic.

My point is, we are all used to rooting for our 'team', whatever that may be. We do this cause it fosters team unity and most importantly, morale, which always has positive effects when competing. When another team is being louder and more spirited, we do not get angry at them, we just compete harder so we can rub it in their face, hehe (unles of course, we lose). 'Why get angry at them for being more spirited?', i think to myself.

Basically, i dont understand why foreigners can hate us for being proud of ourselves. That seems really childish. Its not like our pride is false. And when it is (like, 'we are the best and everything we do is right', which is very rare and only said by an uberingnorant/patriotic minority), why would foreigners bother themselves to care?

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Kramerman
Re American Pride
This, I think, is one of my problems with understanding international loathing of the US. I dont understand why they would dislike us because we are loud and proud of being americans. That seems kind of childish to me, adn i will explain:

See, it is in American culture to have team spirit. In high schools everywhere in the country pep ralleys are usually held seasonally, monthly, and sometimes even weekly. We like to root for the home team in all the sports and everything else. I mean, after San Antonio won the basketball championship, the city went ecstatic.

My point is, we are all used to rooting for our 'team', whatever that may be. We do this cause it fosters team unity and most importantly, morale, which always has positive effects when competing. When another team is being louder and more spirited, we do not get angry at them, we just compete harder so we can rub it in their face, hehe (unles of course, we lose). 'Why get angry at them for being more spirited?', i think to myself.

Basically, i dont understand why foreigners can hate us for being proud of ourselves. That seems really childish. Its not like our pride is false. And when it is (like, 'we are the best and everything we do is right', which is very rare and only said by an uberingnorant/patriotic minority), why would foreigners bother themselves to care?

Because,

1. Uberpatriotism is almost always equal to ignorance. You'd be surprised how many "AMERICA R0X0RS EVERYONES S0X0RZ" people there are, and it's MUCH more than you think.
2. It's constant.
3. When in a position that America is in - it's dangerous. Patriotism can breed intelligence, but uberpatriotism does the opposite. Americans need to be informed if they are to continue to lead the way.

[DanS]

You'd be surprised how many "AMERICA R0X0RS EVERYONES S0X0RZ" people there are, and it's MUCH more than you think.

Well, it does.

Americans need to be informed if they are to continue to lead the way.

Americans don't have a monopoly on leading the way. Perhaps others aren't as good at it , but there's nothing stopping others from doing it.

[Kramerman]

Originally posted by Tassadar5000


Because,

1. Uberpatriotism is almost always equal to ignorance. You'd be surprised how many "AMERICA R0X0RS EVERYONES S0X0RZ" people there are, and it's MUCH more than you think.

again, tho, why do foreigners care? They have just as many ignorant and naive people as the US. It is a fallacy to think we have more, just because we are louder. So why do they care about the ignorance in a country on the otherside of teh world when it is just as prevalent in their own?

2. It's constant.

again, who gives a ****?

3. When in a position that America is in - it's dangerous. Patriotism can breed intelligence, but uberpatriotism does the opposite. Americans need to be informed if they are to continue to lead the way.

Id wager the average american is equally as informed as the average European, and more so than the average african and asian. This means many are still mis/uninformed, but a nation can only do so much about this. We cant make our citizens sit in front of unbiased news wires 24 hours a day.

Uberpatriotism does NOT breed unintellegnce, rather, the unitellegent breed Uberpatriotism. Nothing wrong with this in my eyes. The unintellegent elsewhere do other dumb things. No use getting upset about it. seems childish to do so, in my eyes.

[Pekka]

Kramerman, well.. this is question that pops up every now and then. It's mostly cultural thing, and misunderstanding. Source for many conflicts .

You see, Americans like to cheer and chant and what ever. Nothing wrong with that. But at the same time, many think that it's 'we love our country' and 'why don't you show the same pride for your country?'.
Here comes the part that many don't get. We do. You just don't see us doing it. Televeison is full of US this US that. So as a foreigner, you are FORCED to have an opinion. Negative or positive. And when you see it every day, want it or not, many tend to get negative after a while. Just like being president. People are forced to think something, but in normal life they wouldn't care who this guy is, but now they are forced to from an opinion.

I come from a small and 'insignificant' country. But I'm very proud of it.But we have different kind of habits and traditions. In here, it's not cool to have 100 flags. We show our respect silently. Not showing it all the time, because it's a thing that should not be in our eyes every day. That's our way. But you see my point? You don't (Americans in general) know that. You will never see it on your television every day. Would you like to? I don't think so, at least not every day.

So, what happens is, there is this one country that is proud and chants all the time, and pats theirselves on their back. And this is all I see. Only one country doing this in my television. So, I am forced to form an opinion.
Then I have to think how will I judge and decide what I think of this place? But this is dangerous place.
You see, I know lots about the US. Facts or not. But you guys don't know jacks crap about my country. And I don't see anyone being interested getting to know it either. That creates a situation, where I, as a proud person of my country, can get offended. It's tricky.

At this point, Americans have not done anything wrong. But you are already wondering what people this are about, and are they so busy with their lives that they can't take an interest to your country? And, people do get offended, since they are proud of where ever they come from, most of the times at least. You know (or at least think you know) them, but they don't know you, and they are not interested to know you. That seems arrogant to you. And when ever there are negative news about the US, well you make your decisions, but now they are biased. But it only strengthens your views, even if they are now twisted.

TOO MUCH exposure. People get fed up.

I have to hear what US thinks about this and that, but do they care what I think? I can't get my voice heard. But that's ok too. But it's the fact that I still have to listen them all the time. You are forced to form an opinion. In general, people don't like to be told what to do. At least not from another side of the world they don't. So, this is why being the president of the US is a tricky job, and you won't be liked. People don't like the fact, that the US watches its own interests all over the world, telling people what to do. Nothing wrong with watching your interests, but interests are sometimes in conflict, and you can't get your voice heard. So here you think 'these dudes are watching their interests, but they don't care about MY interests'. And again, it seems arrogant. And all this.. nothing wrong. But it seems arrogant to many people. Many times they wouldn't care about it, but because the attention is so strong, they have to.

And then there is the fact, that since WWII, people at least in Europe tends to watch out carefully, when patriotism turns to nationalism, or what would be closer in the case of US, jingoism. And again, that seems arrogant. And while many people are the same in other countries, they are forced to hear and see one country doing it, as if you would care.

So I think this is just a matter of too much exposure. No ones fault really, but that's the way it is.

This is what I think of the situation, I tried to be analytical and distant, as I don't mind Americans flag waving that much. I understand, that it's their way, and they don't mean anything bad with it. But at the same time, you don't have to watch us doing it, and believe me it gets boring .

BUT at the same time when you do flag waving in your countries (via media etc) some people take that as an aggressive act. Not violent, but aggressive in a way of that really meaning 'your country sucks'.

When you here Bush talking and then all clapping their hands wildly even if he says something.. that you don't agree with, and then 'God loves the US, we're the best' stuff starts to come out, it can translate to you 'you suck'. Many Americans don't realize this, because they don't mean it, but it translates like that to many foreigners.

[Pekka]

So, in other words it's like this model walking down the street, running to you at every corner just to tell you 'I'm good looking'. What are you supposed to think of that?

and 'look at my sexy body... it's deaaaad sexyyyy. But I don't know you, don't touch me I don't want to get to know you'.

I don't mean to sound rude, but.. you have to live outside the US to understand it.

[Pekka]

The last one meant to be to what it can translate in peoples heads, not what the US is doing.

[Pekka]

So, someone asks me 'what do you think about the US' expecting complementaries and nice words. Then I ask 'what do you think about Finland' and they go 'umm what's that'. You wouldn't believe how many people who have actually heard about it goes 'yeah, isn't that part of Russia?' 'Isn't it communist?', and not knowing the facts, they make the greatest offends unknowingly. So, what are you supposed to think of that then?

And about rest of them who have heard about it goes 'yeah, you were allied with Nazis'. How original.

[Whaleboy]

You ever wonder what I'd be like if all the states in the USA leave the union, so you end up with a load of disperate countries.

Economically, I think its a pretty good idea!

[Kramerman]

thank you for your dissertation, pekka It'll take me some time to analyzr it tho, heh

[Whaleboy]

Move to Saudi Arabia, will you?

Azazel: You've had it in for me since that utilitarianism thread! What gives?

Just because I happen to recognise the fallacy of considering ones own culture better than another, doesn't mean that I'm a fan of Sharia law, public beatings, or bhurkas.

[Pekka]

Yeah sorry it was a bit long and not clearly putten out.

But you know, it goes both ways too. Many foreigners are also not realizing, that Americans don't mean 'you suck' or anything.... and that we as foreigners are uninformed too.. it's just stupid people getting fired up about nothing.

Everyone is just misunderstanding everyone else, and it's either no ones fault, or it's everyones fault.

[Pekka]

And this is just how I see it, not necessarily facts! Remember that...

And of course, there are also people that don't like the US for OTHER reasons. But those reasons are stupid, like being jealous etc..