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You be the Judge: What is the appropiate punishment for something like this?
I don't believe in a justice that requires a greater punishment simply to deter others. And how often does something like this happen? Most everyone can see from this that had she sought help, she wouldn't have gotten nearly the sentence she ended up with...
what would she have gotten then, if
a) Biggs had survived?
b) Biggs had survived but lost his two legs?
c) Biggs had died nonetheless?
Originally posted by Sava
she needs to be at the end of a rope
that sounds like something bush would say
"Mal nommer les choses, c'est accroître le malheur du monde" - Camus (thanks Davout)
"I thought you must be dead ..." he said simply. "So did I for a while," said Ford, "and then I decided I was a lemon for a couple of weeks. A kept myself amused all that time jumping in and out of a gin and tonic."
Brandon Biggs, the son of the slain man said that his family and Mallard's were deeply scarred by the crime.
He was dressed quite nicely to have a homeless father. I'm sure he will be very scarred....
"Mal nommer les choses, c'est accroître le malheur du monde" - Camus (thanks Davout)
"I thought you must be dead ..." he said simply. "So did I for a while," said Ford, "and then I decided I was a lemon for a couple of weeks. A kept myself amused all that time jumping in and out of a gin and tonic."
Um, the children would be emotionally scarred for life?
A petty emotion.
"I didn't want to get a DUI ticket, so I went inside and had sex with my boyfriend while he was screaming for help, and then my friends came over and we discussed how to dispose of his (soon to be) dead, rotting corps over a cup of tea (How sweet! ). Then a few days later, he died! Jolly good! So then we hide his body and the car."
This woman is a danger to society. If she is willing on letting a person DIE so she doesnt get a DUI....What will she do next?
Her ass is grass.
Thats an interesting way of putting it
No. Just like I didn't intend to kill the african boy who is dying because the money I pay in tax is funding the EU dumping food on hsi province, so his dad doesn't have a job.
But would you intentionally go out of your way to make sure the African boy dies?
whoch means that they do not believe she is able to control, nor should be responsible for her actions.
Of course not. The woman was hurt that she didn't have sex with her boyfriend earlier, so when the man happend to hit her windshield she was just too busy thinking about sex to care.
So then she getes to her house, and shes thinking of the incredible orgasm shes about to have that she doesnt hear the pleas for help. So she goes and has INCREDIBLE sex with her boyfriend.
Well, shes soooo happy about her sex life that she forgets to STOP HOLDING THE UP BUTTON on the volume, and that simply drowns out the mans voice.
So the next day, after shes all normal, she goes into her garage, BUT....The movie that was on last night was soooo sad, it reminded her of her relationship with her boyfriend, and shes so distraut she dosn't notice the blood gushing everywhere and the screems for help.
So she invites her friends, she says that they should stuff the body and throw it away.....But she didn't mean the HOMELESS PERSONS BODY, she was metaphorically thinking of her own body, and she'll stuff the "Bad, fat body" out and throw it away so she can have even greater sex with her boyfriend.
Well, she goes back into her garage the next day and finds a large pile of cloths coming out of her windshield. Something smells! It must be her boyfriends old cloths.....Oh, how she remembers her boyfriend, who always leaves his cloths lying around everywhere...Times were good back then.
Well, shes a bit too distracted to notice the body thats wearing the cloths, so she stuffs them in a bag and then throws it away.
She obviously had no control
Not at all. I think it is and should be acrime. I said they were less responsibel for their actions when inebriated, they are stil to soem extent responsible. But if someone takes a drug that means they cannot control themselves at all, they have committed the crime of taking that drug. If they kill someone or not while on that drug, they cannot control it. Therefore why are they less guilty if they don't kill someone than if they do? They have the same intent, the intent to take that drug. What they do on it is not under their control.
This actually would be a nice defense.
"I'm not responsible! I took LSD and I just blacked out. I'm not responsible for the murder of this person!!!!"
heres another good defense: Well, I have depression, so that lowers my mood....And when I get angry, I just can't control myself, and so I guess I killed him. But I wasn't in control!!!! It was my anger who was in control, not me!!!
Arguing more about morals
OK, I've drunk, and I've had hangovers.....But I've never taken a shot of something SOOOO strong, it's intoxicating, mind numbing effects were in full swing TWO DAYS AFTER the drink.
Oh yeah, and that wouldn't be murder either - because she didn't intend on his cranium and brain getting in the way of the speeding piece of lead she just released.
Actually, it would be the MANS fault, because his cranium and brain did get in the way....She had no control over it, so obviously he did it intentionally! Destruction of property anyone? Theft anyone?
I take twice the general course load for someone of my age at school, I am enrolling in what many believe to be one of the most prestigious institutions in the world in the autumn (Oxford) and though I don't believe they are a good representation, I have a very high IQ
1. Yay, you like to absorb books.
2. If someone is smart enough to get into Oxford, one is smart enough to do just about anything
3. You are correct. IQ tests are inheritly flawed because no matter now many questions you ask about what subjects, you simply cannot measure a persons intelligence. Some old english guy was simply jealous of his brother.
Do you believe that harsh crimes for offenders actually reduces murders?
Well, yeah. Come now Drouge....Do you honestly think there wouldn't be an increase in murders if, say, you only got a few weeks in jail or community service?
Say if she was run over like that, and left to die, would you feel compassion for her?
No. I hate to use the bible, but its a very good quote: The wicked will destroy the wicked. If evil kills evil, I'm all for it.
If not, what makes it less wrong because the victim is 'evil'?
I used to be friends with a vietnamese woman....Who was completly immobile to happiness, sadness, or most other human emotions. She couldn't feel anger, or morality. Nothing like that.
I feel like I'm talking to her again
Yes I am naive, but I cannot help whom I feel compassion for.
In New-age, your a helper. A helper is the greatest of friends, but the weakest of prey. A helper can heal quite well, but is colourblind.
f she is a danger to society,then remove her from society
Gladly
Is she any more likely than anyone else? Than the 'average' person? I doubt it.
She has shown a tendency to, well, not save people if they are in danger AND to intentionally let them die so she doesnt have a minor inconvienence.
You are more likely to help even the most shunned of souls because its WITHIN you. I'm more likely to be compassionate but judge swiftly but harshly. Thats in me. Shes more likely to let someone die than become inconvinenced. Thats in her
All 1st time offenders have a "plus" in my book over repeat offenders since the latter has continued their criminal behavior.
And all 0-time offenders have a bigger plus because, well, they didn't do anything henious.
only that her concern about what would happen to her was a higher priority.
Someone we really need in society
Ugh. This is almost as high as the "Child Molesters are people too.".
Firstly, I will admit defeat. I was unaware of the exact circumstances, and yes, it does seem that in not allowing others to help him, in the kidnapping side of it, she did commit murder. I still think the sentance is too harsh, but I will not argue that she did not commit murder.
Originally posted by Tassadar5000
This woman is a danger to society.
From what it seems, the kind of thing she did, the torture and kidnapping side of it, she needs to go to a secure hospital. I am no shrink, but she seems very much sociopathic.
Originally posted by Tassadar5000
heres another good defense: Well, I have depression, so that lowers my mood....And when I get angry, I just can't control myself, and so I guess I killed him. But I wasn't in control!!!! It was my anger who was in control, not me!!!
If someone is truly that depressed, then they need treatment in a secure hospital.
Originally posted by Tassadar5000
1. Yay, you like to absorb books.
Actually, I'm not big on reading at all. I just take the exams. Things like Business and Politics I just have an interest in, so don't find them too difficult (they aren't like a Maths A level, they require good general knowledge and that's about it its appauling they're worth the same IMHO).
Originally posted by Tassadar5000
2. If someone is smart enough to get into Oxford, one is smart enough to do just about anything
After my brothers recent achievements, I now have something to aim for Thanks for the compliment, even if it might be a little too far. I'm still shocked how many people apply too. Very scary odds.
Originally posted by Tassadar5000
3. You are correct. IQ tests are inheritly flawed because no matter now many questions you ask about what subjects, you simply cannot measure a persons intelligence. Some old english guy was simply jealous of his brother.
Probably very right. I think they are flawed, in that no test can measure intelligence, but I think they show something, if only an ability to do that kind of test (logic, numbers, memory, language and spatial). But yes, it means jack. Talking of jacks, let us get off this threadjack
Originally posted by Tassadar5000
Well, yeah. Come now Drouge....Do you honestly think there wouldn't be an increase in murders if, say, you only got a few weeks in jail or community service?
No, but I don't think it would increase by much, if any, if the punishment was 20 years instead of 50.
Originally posted by Tassadar5000
I used to be friends with a vietnamese woman....Who was completly immobile to happiness, sadness, or most other human emotions. She couldn't feel anger, or morality. Nothing like that.
Interesting. I would love to meet someone like that. A facinating person to speak to I'm sure.
Originally posted by Tassadar5000
In New-age, your a helper. A helper is the greatest of friends, but the weakest of prey. A helper can heal quite well, but is colourblind.
I'll go with that. I would rather be over trusting and compassionate than cynical. I am cynical when it coems to arguments and proof, but compassionate when it comes to people. Probably overly so at both.
Originally posted by Tassadar5000
You are more likely to help even the most shunned of souls because its WITHIN you. I'm more likely to be compassionate but judge swiftly but harshly. Thats in me. Shes more likely to let someone die than become inconvinenced. Thats in her
Point taken. I don't like the idea of judging personally, but since we do not live in a Utopia, it is necessary IMHO.
Originally posted by Tassadar5000
Someone we really need in society
Ugh. This is almost as high as the "Child Molesters are people too.".
True, but you have to benefit that she is part of society. Is the large detriment to her worth the plus to everyone else of having her removed. If yes, then she should be removed, if no, then she shouldn't. I am more and more being inclined to switch to the yes.
With child molesters, I think there needs to be a distinction between someone who has sex with a willing 15 year old, and someone who preys on pre-teens. The second deserve to be locked up, the first I don't see a crime. Consent is the most important part, and I thinka 15 year old can give consent. It's when it gets much younger that it is like rape IMHO. What if both parties are underage, who gets tried? They both take advantage of the other one?
Smile For though he was master of the world, he was not quite sure what to do next
But he would think of something "Hm. I suppose I should get my waffle a santa hat." - Kuciwalker
Originally posted by Tassadar5000
Um, the children would be emotionally scarred for life?
This should be a concern during sentencing because of what exactly?
I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio
a) Biggs had survived?
b) Biggs had survived but lost his two legs?
c) Biggs had died nonetheless?
I don't know about Texas DUI law, but in California, if she had immediately tried to obtain help after the collision, most likely a)
a) Aggravated DUI - maybe 30-90 days (due to multiple substance abuse, high level of impairment and hitting the guy), a fine, suspension of license, and the whole DUI routine (substance abuse counseling, restricted license after suspension is over, etc.) and civil liability to the victim.
b) The same, but the civil liability would be less.
c) Most likely vehicular manslaughter (not felony, since she tried to get help immediately and it was a first offense). 6 to 12 months in jail, fine, probation for 3-4 years after, longer driver's license suspension, more stringent substance abuse and DUI routine.
The serious criminal elements lie in everything she did after the collision, so she was truly stupid. Even if she had originally locked him in the garage, then when she checked later, called 911 and finally done the right thing, it would have a huge impact on the charges and the degree of jury sympathy.
When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."
The serious criminal elements lie in everything she did after the collision, so she was truly stupid. Even if she had originally locked him in the garage, then when she checked later, called 911 and finally done the right thing, it would have a huge impact on the charges and the degree of jury sympathy.
i agree completely
her actions upto and including driving to her house were not murder, she may have truly been freaked out, but the minute she locked him in the garage and decided to let him die it crossed the line from an accident to murder in my opinion, i mean she had two days! to do some soul searching and come to her senses and do something to save this guy's life
Originally posted by korn469
how very sad, the whole entire thing
As Biggs' son said, "there are no winners."
Biggs is dead, his family has lost him, this woman, who otherwise hasn't done much else, will spend several decades in prison, her family will be affected, her two accomplices will each spend several years in prison, their families will be affected... it's sad on pretty much every level.
Why would his losing his legs have an impact on the civil liability in a downward fashion?
My train of thought derailed. What I was thinking and what I was typing were in the opposite direction - liability would be more, of course. I was thinking from most severe situation down, when the questions were in the opposite order.
When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."
Biggs is dead, his family has lost him, this woman, who otherwise hasn't done much else, will spend several decades in prison, her family will be affected, her two accomplices will each spend several years in prison, their families will be affected... it's sad on pretty much every level.
All serious crime fits this pattern - people would be a hell of a lot better off if we didn't have to fry the Gacy's and Bundy's of the world, and they didn't commit their crimes.
Nobody ever wins, the most you can do is try to make sure less people lose.
When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
I dunno...I can at least get that visceral sense of justice that Gacy was at last brought to justice.
It's not the same with this woman. While I agree with the sentence, I don't get that same feeling of "Yeah!!! We got da *****!"
The thing with Gacy and his ilk, is that the sort of visceral "String 'im up" revulsion Gacy causes is because of the high damage he inflicted. Had Gacy killed once, or never, then he wouldn't generate the revulsion and the visceral desire to see justice inflicted.
Most murderers, I don't find exceptionally repugnant, so I don't get any particular satisfaction out of whatever happens to them. The punishment is earned by the crime, but they both suck.
There's those occasional ones, like the San Diego couple who killed their four year old neice (after 18 months of abuse and torture, including suspending her by handcuffs from a hanger in closed closet overnight as punishment for crying, and holding her hand over a lit stove burner until she had second degree burns as punishment for getting too near the stove), by holding her down and scalding her to death in a bathtub, while their own kids were locked in their bedroom across the hall. They took almost an hour to kill her, constantly heating up water and pouring it on her, while she whimpered and cried.
They're the first ever husband and wife duo on California's death row, but I think injection is far too kind a fate. With someone like that, I wouldn't have any particular problem with taking them out in the desert and dispatching them to hell Chiricauhua Apache style.
When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."
Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
With someone like that, I wouldn't have any particular problem with taking them out in the desert and dispatching them to hell Chiricauhua Apache style.
What does that ential? Tying them down and letting them slowly die of dehydration, or something far worse?
Smile For though he was master of the world, he was not quite sure what to do next
But he would think of something "Hm. I suppose I should get my waffle a santa hat." - Kuciwalker
). Then a few days later, he died! Jolly good! So then we hide his body and the car."
Thanks for the compliment, even if it might be a little too far. I'm still shocked how many people apply too. Very scary odds.
Probably very right. I think they are flawed, in that no test can measure intelligence, but I think they show something, if only an ability to do that kind of test (logic, numbers, memory, language and spatial). But yes, it means jack. Talking of jacks, let us get off this threadjack 
What I was thinking and what I was typing were in the opposite direction - liability would be more, of course. I was thinking from most severe situation down, when the questions were in the opposite order.
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