It's a Famous Quote So it Must be Right!

[Brundlefly]

Originally posted by gunkulator
Because what he said translated to "I am a jelly doughnut." I thought everyone had heard of that one.

That's half true. A "Berliner" is a type of jelly donut made in Berlin. However, literally, that phrase does mean "I am one with the people of Berlin". But he would have saved confusio if he had simply said, "Ich bin Berliner".

[Sava]

"Saddam presents a clear and present danger to America"

"Saddam posseses 'nucular' (not nuclear, mind you) weapons"

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


Ah, the "jelly doughnut" myth. And here I thought everyone knew that was an urban legend.

What Kennedy said was precisely correct for what he wanted to say, you can ask a native German speaker. You'll note that nobody in the crowd laughed when he made this supposed "gaffe"--they cheered loudly.

On they contrary, had he said "Ich bin Berliner," he would have confused the crowd. The context of this statement was that the world would be "one with Berlin," which is what he said when he said "Ich bin ein Berliner." Had he said the other, he would have been saying literally that he resided in Berlin, which was not true.

That there is a pastry called "Einberliner" [sic?] is irrelevant. If someone said to you, "I am Danish," would you think he were a pastry? Should we assume a resident of Frankfurt who says, in English, "I am a Frankfurter" is a hotdog? "I am a New Yorker"--am I a magazine?

Kennedy was not dumb and worked diligently with a native German linguist to say precisely what he wanted to say.

Yes, but isn't it so much better to think that he said "I am a jelly doughnut"? Why can we not just pretend.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Feephi
But he would have saved confusio if he had simply said, "Ich bin Berliner".

Nope, he would have confused his audience. That wasn't what he wanted to say. His audience was not confused at all--the Germans in attendance cheered enthusiastically.

The confusion is being made by English speakers who are relying on a far too-literal view of German without regard to the nuances of figures of speech. "Ich bin ein Berliner" was the only way of conveying what he wanted to convey.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Osweld
Yes, but isn't it so much better to think that he said "I am a jelly doughnut"? Why can we not just pretend.

Not for me. I enjoy disabusing people of their false notions.

[GePap]

"I'm a little teapot, short and stout, this is my handle, this is my spout..":

Bastard teapot!

[gunkulator]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


Ah, the "jelly doughnut" myth. And here I thought everyone knew that was an urban legend.

Yes yes. My answer was party tongue-in-cheek, as was your question I suspect.

What Kennedy said was precisely correct for what he wanted to say, you can ask a native German speaker.

I've heard different accountings. This on claims it that you could still translate it the other way, much as saying "I am a Pole" can either mean a resident of Poland or a narrow cylinder. Of course, noone would translate it that way, but hey, puns are amusing in any language.

But enough of that, back to the amusing quotes. Noone has mentioned the obvious anonymous ones:

"The check's in the mail."
"I'll still respect you in the morning."
"I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

[Solly]

"I'll give you a call"

[Ecthy]

Boris never claimed it couldn't be translated that way.

Jelly doughnuts aren't called Berliners in Berlin anyway but Pfannkuchen, like pancakes, that are called Plinse. Or Eierkuchen.

And Boris, you might be right about all those nuances, but in effect it doesn't make much of a difference if you say "Ich bin Berliner" or "Ich bin ein Berliner", the crowd would have cheered anyway.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by gunkulator
"I am a Pole" can either mean a resident of Poland or a narrow cylinder. Of course, noone would translate it that way

I often have.

[Ecthy]

Oh, and he wasn't even saying that he was one. He said 2,000 years ago the proudes boast was I'm a Roman citizen, today in the world of freedom the proudest boast is I'm a citizen of Berlin, so "Ich bin Berliner" would have been even more correcter.

[Solly]

Erm...what the French Connection United Kingdom is a jelly doughnut anyway?

[Ecthy]

F U C K?

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Boddington's
Erm...what the French Connection United Kingdom is a jelly doughnut anyway?

It's a euphanism. Think about it.

[Japher]

This is why I didn't respond to Boris' question. I knew he would try and find falicy in an otherwise ambiguous statement at the least.

However, he could of really avoided such confussion (which regarless, does exist) had he merely said Ich, auch... thus, verbally including him amonst the others... Anyway, it is still a falsehood that Kennedy is a Beliner, which is what this thread is about..

"I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

I like that one...

Also, "Not available in any store"... to only go and see it in the store the next day...