Could the US mount an industrial effort equal the effort of WW2?

[Serb]

Originally posted by GePap
But the the Sherman was still the one tank that was produced in biggest numbers in WW2.

I always thought (and Lonestar's article says the same) that T-34 took the prize for that.

[Serb]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


There isn't an MBT in the world with rear or top armor than can take a Hellfire hit. There's a big advantage in having mobile air-launched platforms.

We were talking about Bradley vs. T-72, remember? Could you answer those questions:
Do you believe that Bradley's main gun could penatrate armor of T-72? Or do you believe that bradley could destroy T-72 with its ATGM?
And another question- is it possible do destroy Abrams by ATGM?

And one more thing
What's the point to shout everywhere that American IFV can destroy Iraqis T-72 with ATGM, if the same missiles can destroy American tanks as well?

[Serb]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


Nope, those were M829A1 hits. The "Silver bullet" is the 40 mm Sabot round fired from the 120mm gun on the M1A1 and up Abrams.

40mm x ~800mm DU penetrator at ~2000 mps velocity.

The big turret booms are due to the fact that the plasma spray is so effective it simultaneously cooks off everything in the entire tank, and if you catch one in that pathetically slow autoload process, you have everything right there to go kablooey. Instant fireworks show.

I had an amazing article, but lost it somewhere. It was a report about test done by US military. They bought some Russian ERA, placed it on old T-72 and start to shoot. Not a single penatration. Words such 'immune to our 'Silver bullets' were used quite often. There was no information about a distance from where tanks fired, however. If it was propaganda, then it was American propaganda, not Russian.

[Serb]

Originally posted by Cruddy


They couldn't have successfully invaded Germany. They could have raided deep into Germany or overrun the Sudentanland - but while they had a lot of forces on paper, the reaility on the ground were hugh shortages of ammo, fuel, and above all training.

The same was in SU. Red Army wasn't ready for war vs. Hitler in 1939. On paper they had 5 times more tanks then Germans, but most of them obsolete. Red Army's divisions weren't equipped with needed amount of supplies, ammo and new armament even in 1941.

[Poogas]

Originally posted by Serb

I always thought (and Lonestar's article says the same) that T-34 took the prize for that.

If memory serves Sherman's was indeed the largest produced Tank, that was one advantage the U.S held, considering the T-34 armor (atleast I think i'm thinking about the T-34) had 3-4 inches of armor (I think 3) and the most a Sherman could penetrate from the front was 2 inches, soldiers reportedly watched their shells bounce off the Russian tank. The best way to combat this was to sneak up on the T-34 and shoot it in the side (or some other vulnrable area, not 100% where this spot was) befor the T-34 could turn around and shoot back.
Basicly the early Shermans got slaughtered, the troops nick named them Ronsins after the lighter who's catch phrase of the time was "Always lights the first time"
So the number advantage was basicly all the Early shermans had. the later shermans were more competent though.


This is all true to the best of my knowledge, if i'm wrong on it, let me know please.

[Saras]

Originally posted by Serb

The same was in SU. Red Army wasn't ready for war vs. Hitler in 1939. On paper they had 5 times more tanks then Germans, but most of them obsolete. Red Army's divisions weren't equipped with needed amount of supplies, ammo and new armament even in 1941.

By the end of 1941, Red Army passed the Mobile Armored Warfare Tactics 101 and 102 the hard way.*

* - Just finished Guderians "Panzer leader", and these are his impressions.

[introvert]

Originally posted by Lonestar
Serb, the T-34 and most immediate postWar designs where based on the American "Christie" tank suspension aquired in the '30's.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ussia/t-34.htm

This is like saying that all tanks designed and built by the Germans, the Russians, the Americans, the British, the French, etc, both then and now, are based on the Australian tank design from 1912...

[this was the first tank design, and De La Mole is credited as the "inventor" of the tank]

http://inventors.about.com/library/weekly/aa121599a.htm?PM=ss11_inventors

check out the entry for 1912.

[Serb]

Originally posted by GP


In the sub game of cat and mouse we owned and still own your azzes.

WTF? Perhaps your scientists finally created something at least aproximately equal to our Typhoon class subs? Or perhaps your spies finally stolen blueprints of the best torpedo in the world- a Russian-made "Shkval" torpedo?


As for cat and mouse game...I'll try to find you an article which says how entire American fleet tried to catch Kursk in Mediterranian after Kursk made successfull training attack and "destroyed" American carrier. Btw, they failed.

[Lancer]

Darling's dilemma?

--------------

"Lancer retrieve the more ethical version of this question by replacing could with should.
There would be a much easier answer (at least for me)"

Ata, certainly there's no good reason for such a mobilization now, hopefully never will be.

[Colon™]

Hey, I've been investing my precious time to shed some light on the original topic of this thread and none of you can ever bother to say "thank you"? You damn tank-aficionados!

[Saras]

Anyway, which do you think was the better MBT, overall, T-34/85, the latest mod of Pzkfw V or the Sherman?

[Lancer]

Colon, quit spamming my thread with this...data! Yeesh! Btw...
When you look at Soviet tank figures being so high, consider that the US build something like hundreds of thousands of trucks for them. If they had to build their own trucks...they don't build nearly so many tanks.

"In case anyone's interested in a couple of data sheets...

Share of world manufacturing output:

US
1929: 43.3%
1932: 31.8%
1937: 35.1%
1938: 28.7%

USSR
1929: 5.0%
1932: 11.5%
1937: 14.1%
1938: 17.6%

Germany:
1929: 11.1%
1932: 10.6%
1937: 11.4%
1938: 13.2%

Steel output in 1938:

US: 26.4 million tonnes
Germany: 20.7 million
USSR: 16.5 million

Please keep in mind, that output doesn't correctly reflect capacity because of the Great Depression. The US had enormous unutilised capacity, about 2/3's of its steel plant capacity wasn't utilised for instance. The economies of the USSR and Germany were operating near maximum in the later 30's. This would suggest US' steel capacity was 4 to 5 times as large as USSR's when WW2 began.

Tank production in 1944:

US: 17,500 (29,500 in 1943)
Germany: 17,800
USSR: 29,000

Accumulated aircraft production in 1939 to 1945:

US: 324,750 planes (biggest in a single year: 96.318 in '44)
USSR: 158,218 planes (40,300 in '44)
Germany: 117,881 planes (39,807 in '44)

USSR's manufacturing was affected less than the gains Germany made would suggest. Stalin had the foresight to locate the country's heavy industry near the Ural mountain chain, far out of range of Germany's war machine."

[Colon™]

Originally posted by Saras
Anyway, which do you think was the better MBT, overall, T-34/85, the latest mod of Pzkfw V or the Sherman?

I'll go for the Pzkfw V, the name sounds pretty darn advanced.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Serb

WTF? Perhaps your scientists finally created something at least aproximately equal to our Typhoon class subs? Or perhaps your spies finally stolen blueprints of the best torpedo in the world- a Russian-made "Shkval" torpedo?


As for cat and mouse game...I'll try to find you an article which says how entire American fleet tried to catch Kursk in Mediterranian after Kursk made successfull training attack and "destroyed" American carrier. Btw, they failed.

ARticle in USNI Proceedings by a Russian Naval officer says that the Kursk simulated attack on a carrier was the first in 4 years. We OWNED you guys. No kidding.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Lord Merciless


We can MOAB their cities instead of nuking them. America has the mean, but lacks the will to kill. A nuke on one of our cities would give us this will. The rest of the world wouldn't be happy, but they would understand.

What have you been smoking? A terrorist organization kills American civilians with a nuke, so the US response is to kill civilians who mostly have nothing to do with the terrorists (whether a dictatorial regime hosts them or looks the other way has little to do with the targets) and the rest of the world "would understand"

Mass killing of civilians by nations who allegedly follow international law is a bit passe.