Could the US mount an industrial effort equal the effort of WW2?

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Serb
Sure. The most industrialized part of Soviet Union was in ruins. Millions of people died, millions of people fight vs. invaders. What the hell do you expected? Had USA experienced at least something equal to this, I doubt it still had half of the world's manufacturing capacity.

At Barbarossa, the USSR had five times the number of tanks the Germans did, including enough T34-40 and KV-1 and KV-2 to kick the German's ass and go to Berlin.

If Stalin hadn't been so fond to purge all his competent army commanders, and to politicize the army, while kissing Hitler's ass in 1939 and then dropping his drawers for 21 months while Hitler demonstrated his tactical doctrine to the world, then millions of people wouldn't have died. Using Stalin's ****ups as an excuse for the end results is kind of lame.

[Serb]

Originally posted by David Floyd
Ah, but according to you, "ifs ands and buts" don't count

Right, I forget about this.

And post-WW2, the Soviet population still exceeded the US population.

And? The country was completely devastated, ruins everywhere, millions of mans died. In industry worked mostly women, children, elders and badly injured decommissioned soldiers. USA simply didn't have such problems.

[David Floyd]

In industry worked mostly women, children, elders and badly injured decommissioned soldiers. USA simply didn't have such problems.

Fine, but I'm talking about theoretical capacity as well, and in this aspect, which ignores the "quality of workers", if you will, the US was still superior.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Lord Merciless
That has been our policy for the last 50 years to prevent nuclear wars: If you attack us with nukes, we will disregard any concept of human rights and annihilate your people.

It worked pretty well against the USSR.

(a) The USSR had an equally effective deterrent system.

(b) The USSR had fairly stable, predictable and responsible leadership, and safety protocols to prevent cowboy issues.

(c) The USSR was interested in projecting power in conventional ways - politics, economy, etc., i.e. they weren't fanatics.

(d) The USSR didn't have a cult of death where one achieves status in the afterlife by dying while killing infidels.

(e) You've never heard of Darling's Dilemna.

[Serb]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


At Barbarossa, the USSR had five times the number of tanks the Germans did, including enough T34-40 and KV-1 and KV-2 to kick the German's ass and go to Berlin.

If Stalin hadn't been so fond to purge all his competent army commanders, and to politicize the army, while kissing Hitler's ass in 1939 and then dropping his drawers for 21 months while Hitler demonstrated his tactical doctrine to the world, then millions of people wouldn't have died. Using Stalin's ****ups as an excuse for the end results is kind of lame.

Yeah right, using your aproach:
French with British support had enough forces to kick German ass and go to Berlin while bulk of Werchmaht was pretty busy chasing Polish divisions. Or they could invade earlier and don't kiss Hitler ass trying to please him in all possible ways- surrending Austria and Czehoslovakia to him, letting him to violate Versale treaty and letting him to create such war machine at the first place.

Those 21 months weren't wasted. Soviet Union started to re-arm its military. Most of the military designs that were used later were completed and put in mass production during this period. (T-34 and KV tanks or rocket artilery for example)

[David Floyd]

Serb, I agree with MtG in that Stalin purged most of his competent commanders - you simply cannot argue that the Germans enjoyed a significant leadership advantage, especially early on, and that the German NCO corps was far superior to that of the Red Army.

[Serb]

Originally posted by David Floyd


Fine, but I'm talking about theoretical capacity as well, and in this aspect, which ignores the "quality of workers", if you will, the US was still superior.

Sure it was, there was no war on American continent.
Feel better now?

[Serb]

Originally posted by David Floyd
Serb, I agree with MtG in that Stalin purged most of his competent commanders - you simply cannot argue that the Germans enjoyed a significant leadership advantage, especially early on, and that the German NCO corps was far superior to that of the Red Army.

When the hell I denied this?

[David Floyd]

Actually I am, I got you to come out and grant me a major concession without dancing around the issue.

[David Floyd]

*Shrug* It sounded like you were denying it to me.

[Serb]

You think I'm completely insane? That I would deny that USA had greater industrial capacity or that Stalin purges in army greatly weakened Red Army?

[David Floyd]

Well, the next step is to get you to admit that in 1945, the US would have kicked the Soviet Union's ass if they went to war

[Dis]

I can't see any situation in which we would require complete mobilization.

terrorists? come on! we can wipe them out with the forces we already have. Or if we really get desperate we can use nukes.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Serb


Yeah right, using your aproach:
French with British support had enough forces to kick German ass and go to Berlin while bulk of Werchmaht was pretty busy chasing Polish divisions. Or they could invade earlier and don't kiss Hitler ass trying to please him in all possible ways- surrending Austria and Czehoslovakia to him, letting him to violate Versale treaty and letting him to create such war machine at the first place.

They could have and should have, but didn't have the balls, because they were afraid of the backlash from their own pansy citizens who'd whine about another war. You had the NKVD for that, and Stalin didn't really have to be accountable to anybody. By the time Hitler was done in the west, had scrapped Sea Lion, and was heading through Greece and the Balkans, the writing on the wall should have been obvious.

Those 21 months weren't wasted. Soviet Union started to re-arm its military. Most of the military designs that were used later were completed and put in mass production during this period. (T-34 and KV tanks or rocket artilery for example)

Troop training and combat doctrine counted for far more - look at Rasyeinya for one example - you didn't need a lot of stuff to deal with the Germans. Just a portion of what you had, applied competently, could have ripped the Panzertruppen from stem to stern.

[Serb]

Originally posted by David Floyd
Well, the next step is to get you to admit that in 1945, the US would have kicked the Soviet Union's ass if they went to war

NEVER.
We will bury you, no matter what. Trust me.