Need book advise (non-fictional, politics mostly)...!

[JohnT]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


Cite? I have Roberts' book right here, and I don't see this phrase at all when discussing the Reagan years. On the contrary, he seems to praise Reagan's "remarkable leadership" at several points.

Cite will have to come later, when I get home to my well-worn copy of the book. Trust me, it's there. If you have the same copy I do (mines a hardback) it is on the same page that has the picture of Reagan shaking hands with Gorby.

Your "generalization" is my "opinion." Tomato, tomahto, Boris.

[Ecthy]

you will notice that the top fifth gains the most, the claim seems wrong though...

[JohnT]

I did notice that. I also noticed that my family was in the bottom fifth in 1981 and in the top 2/5ths in 1989, ergo his claim that "only" the rich... is incorrect.

[Ecthy]

oh wow, I bet they invested some money in Saddam in 1981

[JohnT]

Naw, typical stuff that happens in America: The department was outsourced, so the (soon to be fired) managers decided to start their own business supplying that which was now being outsourced. Contracts were awarded, everybody just switched corporate names on paychecks, and etc...

[Ecthy]

alright, couldn't happen as easily in Europe, social mobility is pretty low

in case someone missed it:

History of the World = History of the 20th Century?

If not, can you recommend both?

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by JohnT
Well, according to the Census Bureau, real (2001 dollars) wage growth was like this during the Reagan Administration:

John, John, John...the chart supports what Roberts is asserting. If you adjust for inflation and cost of living increases, the relative wealth of the bottom income-earners changed negligibly, but the wealthiest's increased considerably. That was the point of what Roberts was saying, and he is correct.

He was speaking in a generality, which is an accepted literary device, and his generality is essentially correct. That your family defied the trend is great, but Roberts is addressing what was most common, not the exceptions.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Ecthelion
alright, couldn't happen as easily in Europe, social mobility is pretty low

in case someone missed it:

History of the World = History of the 20th Century?

If not, can you recommend both?

I answered this after the fist time you asked.

[JohnT]

Boris answered it. They are not the same book.

History of the World was the original work, first published (IIRC) in the 1950's. A History of Europe has many of the exact same passages as HoW and can be considered an extension of the original. I haven't read Ho20thCen, but it is likely the same.

[JohnT]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov

John, John, John...the chart supports what Roberts is asserting. If you adjust for inflation and cost of living increases, the relative wealth of the bottom income-earners changed negligibly, but the wealthiest's increased considerably. That was the point of what Roberts was saying, and he is correct.

He was speaking in a generality, which is an accepted literary device, and his generality is essentially correct. That your family defied the trend is great, but Roberts is addressing what was most common, not the exceptions.

Using words like "only" does not express generalities, Boris. If he would've said "most" or "all except JohnT's family and a few others I don't know about", he might've gotten away with it. Big deal: it doesn't change the intrinsic worth of the book, which we both rate as very high.

The chart is already adjusted for inflation and COLA increases (see where it says "2001 dollars"?). Doing so again is unnecessary.

[JohnT]

JM Roberts died this past May 30th at the age of 75.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/obituaries/story/0,3604,971519,00.html

Btw, it lists the first printing of the HoW as 1976... where did I get the fifties from?

His book "Triumph of the West" is available for free online, btw.

[DinoDoc]

The Tragedy of Great Power Politics by John J. Mearsheimer

[Ecthy]

isn't inflation included in real income calculation?

[JohnT]

Yes.

My apologies: only 20 pages of Triumph of the West can be found online. http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/roberts1.htm

[Ecthy]

You are forgiven.

Any opinions on Kissinger, Kagan, Vidal, Brzezinski...