Should we legalise cannabis?

[monolith94]

"but still, if weed is legalized, who would produce it? Philip Morris? they could easily get into the weed game and drive out the competition and they don't exactly got a good track record with their smoke-able products..."

Considering the fact that the status of the greenhouse marijuana maker is iconic now, I'm sure there'd be plenty of local hippies (phish listeners) to take on that arduous task.

[Berzerker]

Speer -

even a religious Christian like Black Dragon is in favour of legalization! this is ridiculous...

Yeah, can't all these people who call themselve's "Christians" practice some christianity for a change and break into all our homes and cart the few million with marijuana off to cages? I know the Bible verse from Jesus well, "Thou shall wander the countryside abducting and caging users of the devil weed...oh...and by the way...you'll have to steal the money to pay for this wonderful service to the world".

[oedo]

marijuana is not that harmless as many people want to believe. otoh cannabis can be usefuel as a medicament. the current restrictions are silly. chemist´s shops - but no one else - should be allowed to sell it.
legalize it and put a high tax on it and get it away from the black market that way.

[Berzerker]

Speer -

Weed has not been used as frequently as alcohol. it didn't exist in europe or america until relatively recently and it was banned in the Islamic world...

Europeans have been using hemp/cannibis for at least 600 years to produce sails, etc...and probably the Romans before them... Alcohol was probably "invented" in the process to protect against water poisoning, so how often they are used is kind of irrelevant unless you believe in democracy. And Islamic law isn't the same everywhere in the Islamic world. What is law in Saudi Arabia may not be law in the Sudan.

[Berzerker]

put a high tax on it and get it away from the black market that way.

High taxes will keep much of the black market in place.

[oedo]

nope, marijuana in itself is cheap. you can put 300% taxes and it´s still cheaper than on the blackmarket.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
bad analogy... in 1919, alcohol was very wide-spread and very popularily used... far more than weed is even if plenty of people smoke today... it also had a long history (thousands of years ) of legalization and a sudden criminalization (especially as most americans found nothing wrong with alcohol) only caused problems...

It is a matter of scale instead of kind. In fact, all the problems with drugs stem from criminalisation. Why do you think the druglords are making so much money now? Same reason why the Mafia made a killing during the Prohibition. If all drugs are legalised and regulated, with $$$ going into education and preventive measures, drug-related crimes will largely vanish.

[Berzerker]

nope, marijuana in itself is cheap. you can put 300% taxes and it´s still cheaper than on the blackmarket.

And buying or selling it with no tax is cheaper than with a %300 tax. Make the taxes higher and you increase the incentive to bypass the taxes...we're already seeing this with higher taxes on tobacco...

[oedo]

And buying or selling it with no tax is cheaper than with a %300 tax. Make the taxes higher and you increase the incentive to bypass the taxes...we're already seeing this with higher taxes on tobacco...

but I guess you see the point. I agree that legal marijuana shouldn´t be much more expensive than black market marijuana, else too many people would still buy at the local drug dealer.

from the marijuana planter through the smuggler to the final drug dealer there are many people who want to make profit. from station to station pot becomes more expensive until it reaches a ridiculous price for the consumer. even a high tax couldn´t compete with this increase. but I don´t want to arge about numbers.
I also guess most consumers would prefer legal canabis even if it was slightly more expensive, not only because it is legal and they don´t run the risk of a punishment, but also of the better quality.

otoh I think that pot shouldn´t become too cheap. dope should remain a luxury. else our economies would suffer, if we all would be permanently high, just because we can afford it.

[Whaleboy]

Albert: Bare in mind that the problems in the inner cities with drugs (and believe me I know), are to do with illegal drugs being supplied by dealers, thus fuelling much of the crime. By legalising it, they will not be able to remain in business supplying marijuana, thus removing part of that problem. They will only be able to do harder, illegal stuff, in which case, the social taboos and far fewer number of users of harder drugs would make them somewhat more vulnerable to police action. I say far fewer number of users of harder drugs in relation to number of people who smoke cannabis, which in my former area was comparable to numbers of those who regularly drink, and around one in ten in my town now.

Marijuana also has plenty of harmful effects which the pro-legalization crowd always denies

Which can be reduced due to proper safety checking if legalised and kept under the same controls as tobacco. Gram for gram, weed to tobacco, weed is about twice as harmful, however, one smokes generally 10 times less than tobacco, and that is for heavy users.

Everything has harmful effects though, I rather giving people proper information so they can decide for themselves, like what happens (somewhat unsuccessfully although improving) with alcohol and tobacco.

you know what... i'm actually kind of sickened by these threads... back in 1999, a drug legalization debate on apolyton would have been very heated but now it's just me versus everybody else. even a religious Christian like Black Dragon is in favour of legalization! this is ridiculous

awww how sweet! Nonetheless, does that not show something? Most of the arguments for keeping cannabis illegal are generally authoritarian, and generally on the right. These are views that have been heavily countered of late as people understand more and more about the issues behind them, and not the "common sense" facards, and also with this issue, people understand more than they did 4 years ago.

i love how i'm the person on this forum who has the most first-hand experience of the harm that drugs do to society and yet everyone here can sit comfortably in their pink homes, lighting blunts, and saying drugs should be legalized

You're making big assumptions about how we live, and implying that we must have had a easy life to be able to have our opinions. Not everyone who's had a hard life will concur with you Albert.

[Whaleboy]

Besides, whats so wrong with substances like alcohol and tobacco, as well as cannabis?

Sure there are health issues, but at the end of the day, they are merely chemicals, and down to the individual to decide if, how and why they take them. Simply banning them because they are popular, or some nanny state thinks that they are bad or harmful, are not justifiable reasons in the face of the mass of reasoning and evidence to the contrary.

[Jac de Molay]

I'd decriminalize but not legalize. I think the jury is still out on the effects marijuana has over long-term use ( cancer risks, etc.), and its medicinal value is dubious at best.

Plus, If there was ever a society that would abuse a substance to the point where it became a detriment to society, it would be america. I wish we were more enlightened but were not.

[Sava]

Marijuana should be legalized. It's no worse than alcohol.

[Cruddy]

Originally posted by oedo

....legalize it and put a high tax on it and get it away from the black market that way.

Not an option. If the legal stuff is more expensive than the black market, people will just buy black market.

I'm for regulation rather than total de-criminalisation. It should still be illegal to drive under the influence, in public places it should still be banned, and it shouldn't be available to children.

I think smoking it in your own home should be OK though. Even better, allow a certain number of "legal" plants (5 in Holland?) so that you can't buy or sell the stuff but can make your own - which would bring it into line with wine and beer in the UK.

If people can grow for their own use, it would stop it being a "gateway" drug - you woulnd't be buying or selling it, so there's no excuse to buy or sell other, more harmful drugs.

[Cruddy]

Originally posted by elijah
Besides, whats so wrong with substances like alcohol and tobacco, as well as cannabis?

They kill people? OK, cannabis doesn't kill, but the others do.