United Nations Leaves Its People To Die In Congo

[The Mad Monk]

I would certainly not send two unarmed men, then ignore their cries for help while saying 'we are not responsible'.

[GePap]

As the UN has been set up, if people get to indeendent, they get shot down. Satets have set up a bunch of rules to happer ad contain the UN becuase they don;t want it to be too independent. In such a climate, no surprise that people decide to svae thier jobs and asses by a strict intepretation of the rules.

Oh, and I assume you're saying the UN is actually doing something about the killings there?

They are not doing much, and with that, they are doing far, far more than any actual individual world government in the entire world. So keep your until you can give any actual other solutions.

I don;t appreciate people who ***** about how someone does a job even though they know they would never do the job themselves if even given the chance.

[Sava]

The UN needs some serious reform. It's a joke.

[Az]

I don;t appreciate people who ***** about how someone does a job even though they know they would never do the job themselves if even given the chance.

Load of crap.

So, you never complain about ****ups of other people who's job you couldn't possibly do?

Let's say that you have a problem with the plumbing, and you get a plumber, and he screws it up. Don't you have a right to criticize him?

[GePap]

Sorry to do this to you azazel but:



If a specific plumber screws up, I call another one. There is no other UN, no other world organization or individual national satte willing to sne dhite own people under thier own flag (meaing thier responsibility and money) to the Congo.

So all the people hrere *****ing about the UN: well, it leave two things: make comments about how the UN could be changed to address this pormblem and others in peacekeeping, or give a realistic idea of how a problem like the one in Bunia culd be addressed by other orgs or individual national governments.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by GePap
make comments about how the UN could be changed to address this pormblem and others in peacekeeping,

How about we consider this rule change to avoid similar situations in the future: When people call you repeatedly begging to be extracted, listen to them. Or is that too simple?

[The Mad Monk]

GePap, please read the entire article:

The U.N. military observers agree. Several were sent in teams of four to other remote parts of Ituri at the same time as Oran and Banda in April. They were urged to go quickly with little preparation, they said. And after they arrived they received little attention from MONUC officials, they said.

"After we got there, they forgot us. Nobody told us what we had to do there," said another U.N. military observer. "I didn't even know which group was Hema and which was Lendu."

At the time, MONUC needed to have a strong presence in Ituri, said the observers. The Ugandan army, which occupied the province, was leaving in accordance with a multinational peace pact. MONUC was expected to fill the security vacuum.

"The U.N. was very pressured to find a solution to the Congo war," said a third U.N. military observer. "They sent observers too soon to a situation where we can't do our work."

On May 8, that became clear. With the Ugandans gone, clashes between Hema and Lendu militias had broken out all over the province. Oran and Banda called MONUC's offices in Kisangani asking to be evacuated, said a fourth U.N. military observer.

But it was unclear who was responsible for the observers. For the next four days, phone calls were exchanged among Kisangani, Bunia and Kinshasa about getting clearance to evacuate Oran and Banda.

They were supposed to send armed troops -- at least that's how I read "fill the security vacuum". The Ugandans, who had been providing security, had vacated "in accordance with a multinational peace pact", which was probably set up by the UN -- in short, they should have known enough to have armed troops standing by to fill the gap.

Instead, they sent a handful of observers, as sheep among wolves.

[Az]

If a specific plumber screws up, I call another one. There is no other UN, no other world organization or individual national satte willing to sne dhite own people under thier own flag (meaing thier responsibility and money) to the Congo.

So all the people hrere *****ing about the UN: well, it leave two things: make comments about how the UN could be changed to address this pormblem and others in peacekeeping, or give a realistic idea of how a problem like the one in Bunia culd be addressed by other orgs or individual national governments.

A. So far, the UN mission to Congo has done very little to prevent the mass killings of civilians, so it's not as if they're doing half of the work, they're doing close to nothing.
B. As MtG has said, there was clearly a solution to this particular problem. Also, decisions must be made considering the entire conflict, since this situation is unacceptable.

C.So, if a person is somewhat of a simpleton, he has got no right to criticize his own country's government? or are you suggesting that he'd move out of the country?
Not every criticism and display of dismay must be followed by an articulate plan to solve the problem. Every person can see that obviously something is wrong in this situation, and wants to rectify it. Not everyone can tell how. This thing doesn't change with the number of 'plumbers', solution-providers.

[GePap]

And why were troopps rushed in? becuase member states wanted to be seen as caring. The UN odes what its members demand. Fault lies with the member, who after ignoring this issue so long now all of a sudden want to seem involved, so they rush tnigs now, after endless delay before.

How about we consider this rule change to avoid similar situations in the future: When people call you repeatedly begging to be extracted, listen to them. Or is that too simple?

With who's plane? Who pays? What about airspace rights? Do rescuers go armed? UNder what rules of engagement?

If things were so simple DD, if they were so simple.

[Az]

How about we consider this rule change to avoid similar situations in the future: When people call you repeatedly begging to be extracted, listen to them. Or is that too simple?

how about not sending personel into isolated positions into knowingly hostile territory?

[GePap]

Sorry Azazel, but I am sick of mindless anti UN trolling (and mindless trolling in general).

Not every criticism and display of dismay must be followed by an articulate plan to solve the problem. Every person can see that obviously something is wrong in this situation, and wants to rectify it. Not everyone can tell how.

This thread went beyond criticism of ther UN, as all ant-UN threads go,, since the point is not to point out mistakes, but to make a point (get rid of the UN..see how bad it is).

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by GePap
I don;t appreciate people who ***** about how someone does a job even though they know they would never do the job themselves if even given the chance.

Give me the funding, and I'll have those militias out of business in six months tops.

Mad Mike Hoare did a bang-up job of it against the Simbas, Kabila sr. (not that he ever actually showed up in the Congo, he stayed on the other side of the lake in his Mercedes), and the Guevaristas.

Some people *****ed about his methods, and it's too bad we didn't keep a choke-chain on the little f*** of a journalist, but that doesn't really take away from the effectiveness of Mad Mike and his Wild Geese.

[The Mad Monk]

And where did I say I wanted to put an end to the UN?

I just said that I don't want our troops to be under the kind of reckless (yet timid) idiots that comprise the UN command structure.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by GePap
With who's plane?

The one they came in.

Who pays?

The people who sent them to such an isolated position in the first place.

What about airspace rights?

They already had airspace rights.

Do rescuers go armed?

No need. They were recieving death threats not under armed assault at the time they were begging to be extracted.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by GePap
With who's plane? Who pays? What about airspace rights? Do rescuers go armed? UNder what rules of engagement?

If things were so simple DD, if they were so simple.

You're just trying to create an issue where there is none.

(a) The UN managed to insert the two Milobs, presumably it procured funding for extracting them, or else disclosed that this was literally a lifetime assignment.

(b) Helos and air assets were and are available under UN control in Bunia.

(c) The Milobs were threatened and told to get out days before they were killed. One would assume if an unarmed transport helo showed up to extract them, the local militias wouldn't get particularly bent about the Milobs complying with what they'd been told.

(d) Since Col. "I don't feel guilty" is head of a military command, one would assume there are a few weapons lying around, besides the probably never fired after qualification pistol on his belt. There's your armed force if you need support for an extraction.

(e) RoEs are already in place, and firing in self-defence or defense of UN forces is authorized.

If you want to rationalize and excuse cowardice, you'll have to do a better job.