United Nations Leaves Its People To Die In Congo

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by The Mad Monk
I believe the closest thing we have to this was ten years ago in Mogadishu. At least there we tried to do something -- but nowhere near enough.

Not really an applicable analogy, except as to the overall cluster**** imposed by civilian authority.

[The Mad Monk]

Okay, I see where you're coming from, how about if I just hope to God none of our fighters are ordered to work under these idiots (or ordered again, if it's already happened).

[MichaeltheGreat]

That's a command decision - IMO, all peacekeeping missions should be configured as warfighting missions, with enough hardware and enough gung-ho forces to put the fear of God into the original combatants. Then, for whatever political/aid/what have you non-military aspects, you can have some aid people and bureacrats do that job, instead of your knuckledraggers.

Commanders should be proven combat commanders, or at least the closest thing to that you can get from among the primary force providers, and you should have clear delineation of authority between the knuckledragger and pansy sides of the mission, and a clear chain of command.

From his name, Col. "I don't feel guilty" sounds like a Frog, but they've got to have some better commanders around, especially in the Legion.

[The Mad Monk]

Did you see the picture of him in the article? I wonder if that's one of the "civilian air crews" talking behind his back.

[Az]

Michael, how is:

In Vietnam and earlier wars, it happened all the time - you put guys out on LP at night, knowing that if the **** hits the fan, it would hit them first, but they'd buy a little time for you to get the rest of your forces in fighting order.

comparable with the story above?

[DRoseDARs]

Col. Daniel "I don't feel guilty" Vollot, shown here June 6, 2003, the MONUC sector commander in Bunia. (He's the pr*ck in the middle)

[Q Classic]

the un has its share of problems. in fact, more than its share. the one time it has ever worked was over fifty years ago, when the ussr walked out and let the un do its job.

in this particular case, there apparently was no clear chain of command, no accountability, and everybody in power had their heads so far up their asses that their two holes merged... and it ends up with this tragic fvckup.
punish daniel vollot, since it happened on his watch.
and for chrissake, send people who are a) knowledgeable about the situation, and b) capable of speaking in at least one lingua fraca for the area...

so it fvcks up more than it ought to. that doesn't mean we need to chuck an international organization. what it does mean is that the organization itself needs to be reworked.

now, i don't know whether the un charter itself allows for amendments strong enough to rework its institutions, but it's become painfully evident in recent years that this reworking is critically needed to have a viable international organization and for the un to actually be able to perform what it wants.

that's why i love it how so many people, particularly conservative americans, hate the un so. i haven't run into many foreigners who hate the un (however, i will admit that my experience with foreigners are limited to expatriates in the us and koreans), nor have i run into many liberals who exhibit such vitriol towards it.
it is often these same people who refuse to empower the un, and then turn around and complain that the un is a worthless, toothless organization which cannot carry out anything it sets to paper.
it is a natural consequence: when a body is incapable of carrying out its edicts, more often than not, its edicts will be ignored.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Azazel
Michael, how is:

In Vietnam and earlier wars, it happened all the time - you put guys out on LP at night, knowing that if the **** hits the fan, it would hit them first, but they'd buy a little time for you to get the rest of your forces in fighting order.

comparable with the story above?

Look at Mad Monk's post I was responding to... (i.e. about soldiers refusing orders to go on UN missions)

[JCG]

This just shows how weak the UN is...and some people want to make it even more so?

[The Mad Monk]

There is a difference between "weak" and "callously indifferent". Somehow I can't see "observers must be flown by civie pilots" as being part of the restrictions imposed.

[Az]

got it, Michael.

[GePap]

And yet, without the UN, nobody would have had anyone near bunia, so that the killings there would just be ignored. Cause we all know how many US voters (or UK, or France, or Italy, or Spain) are willing to send thier boys to portect the people of Bunia

Give me a ****ing break! I get sick of all this anti-UN bull****! Would you send the US army to Bunia MM? if not, who will go?!

The UN needs to be rewrked, to be given the power to help people in this way, and who is standing in the way of that? Every single national government that values its soverignty more than the lives of someone who happens to live esewhere.

What would have saved the lives of those guys? If the UN had more power to act. Who won;t give the UN the power to act? Its member states. Who is to blame when **** like this happens? The states that make up the UN for having a weak org. that they can readilly ignore most of the time.

[Jack_www]

Anther example of how useless the UN is and how those peacekeepers could never do anthing, even to protect their own troops let alone the suffering people!

[Az]

Here, have a glass of water, GePap.

[MichaeltheGreat]

The UN forces had the ability to extract the two observers.

Col. "I don't feel guilty" chose not to, without any valid reason.

The only breakdown in command and control was that there was apparently nobody around to override the cowardice of that little chickenchoker.

Oh, and I assume you're saying the UN is actually doing something about the killings there?