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Israelis should seriously consider abandoning Israel
"I read a book twice as fast as anybody else. First, I read the beginning, and then I read the ending, and then I start in the middle and read toward whatever end I like best." - Gracie Allen
That's an odd kind of legitimacy, considering lack of archeological evidence to back it up... Also a bit silly considering lack of Israeli state from AD75(?) to AD1947(?).
not sure about 20th c BC, but from 10th c BC on theres a considerable amount of evidence - i would point as a start to Yadins excavations of wall at hazor and Megiddo, which match to biblical statement that Solomon built walls in those cities. See Aharoni "Archaeology of the land of israel" Fragments of hebrew texts start showing up shortly thereafter, (9th c BC) and excavations at "city of David" show alot about Jerusalem from 9thc B onwards.
whats missing archaeologically is proof of solomons
temple (where digging is impossible cause of political situation on temple mount - also possibility nothing would be found because of ancient looting of valuable building materials) And anything from earlier - which may be because israelites were not distinctive people yet.
Also re ad 75 - Temple was destroyed and rebellion crushed in AD69. (69 CE)
There was another revolt , the bar kochaba revolt, that temporarily restored Jewish sovereinty in 142 AD. So although religiously the exile is dated from 69, the permanent loss of sovereignty really starts in 142.
Even so there was a large Jewish population that remained after 142. The Jews still played a political role, for example supporting the Persian invasion against the Byzantines in the 6th C AD.
The Jerusalem talmud, a very important religious document, was written circa 400 AD.
As late as the 9th C AD important cultural work was done - the Masoretic texts of the bible, the basis for most later Hebrew texts until the 20thC, and source of vocalization of the Hebrew bible were written in the land of Israel in 9th and 10th C AD.
Even at nadir (10th C AD to 13thC AD) there was Jewish life in the land.
Return to the land began as early as 13thc AD, when a famous group of rabbis returned. in 15th c a large number of refugees from the Spanish Inquisition arrived, bringing Jewish pop to about 10,000, and establishing jewish majorities in the towns of Sefad and Tiberias. A major strain of Jewish mysticism, effecting Jews around the world, Lurianic mysticism, orginated in this period in Sefad.
good luck with your studies Cruddy - hope this helps.
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
What's the point in Uganda? Zionism is a national movement and like any other movement it wants independance in the homeland.
the point in uganda in 1904 was that it was avialble (or at least seemed to be) and that the Jews of the time faced an emergeny - the Kishinev pogrom and growing antisemitism in the Russian empire. The reason for rejecting it was that it would the Zionist movement would lose its connection with the ordinary Jews of eastern europe, who were deeply attached to the Israel as the Jewish home - it would also have probably meant a break with the similarly motivated traditional jews of the Islamic world, though that was not a high priority at the time. In any case, i think the brits got cold feet anyway.
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
What a strange thread. To the quoted question: no.
To the whole "ancient homeland" bit. God does not hand out mortages or deeds. Who lived someplace 2000 years before is utterly immaterial to land claims today. So until God ocmes down himself with his "divine deed", the bible is utterly immaterial to the legal discussion of land ownership. (for either side).
If you don't like reality, change it! me
"Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw
Originally posted by GePap
What a strange thread. To the quoted question: no.
. Who lived someplace 2000 years before is utterly immaterial to land claims today.
who says??? where in international law is this written???? There is of course no precedent in international law for this claim, as there is NO other people who were exiled and managed to remain as a people with a consciousness of their homeland for 1750 years (not 2000 - 142 AD to 1919 AD)
The first "international law" on this subject is in fact the Palestine Mandate of the League of Nations, which does call for a homeland for the Jewish People in Palestine. What prior international law existed that the League was violating??
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
Originally posted by GePap
Who lived someplace 2000 years before is utterly immaterial to land claims today.
can you explain for me why the German-Polish frontier was moved to the Oder Niesse line - restoring Polish soveriegnty over lands that hadnt been ethnically polish or under polish rule for over 700 years?? Or is the magic cutoff somewhere longer than 700 years, but shorter than 1700 years?
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
can you explain for me why the German-Polish frontier was moved to the Oder Niesse line - restoring Polish soveriegnty over lands that hadnt been ethnically polish or under polish rule for over 700 years?? Or is the magic cutoff somewhere longer than 700 years, but shorter than 1700 years?
ditto for east prussia.
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber
Originally posted by lord of the mark
who says??? where in international law is this written???? There is of course no precedent in international law for this claim, as there is NO other people who were exiled and managed to remain as a people with a consciousness of their homeland for 1750 years (not 2000 - 142 AD to 1919 AD)
The first "international law" on this subject is in fact the Palestine Mandate of the League of Nations, which does call for a homeland for the Jewish People in Palestine. What prior international law existed that the League was violating??
As I have stated before, the whole mandate system ran counter to the very aism the League supposedly stood for, first and foremost national self-determination.
land ownership is for individuals or organizations, not some nebulous "nation".
If you don't like reality, change it! me
"Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
"it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
"Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw
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