Suicide Bombing in Jerusalem, 15+ Dead

[Bereta_Eder]

its always because of misinformation
im sure iof rmshape saw the body of the 8 year old that israel army killed in that gaza raid he might sing a different tune that could lead to peace


then again he might not whoknows, who cares

[Ecthy]

i wonder what they're version for the moral justificaiton is, why anyone who blames Israel for direct or indirect guilt of such an attack must be an anti-semite... easily said, but can you actually make a point out of it?

[Bereta_Eder]

well antisemitism exists and is to some extend a cause that some people are bend on blaming israel and to close their eyes on the terrorist attacks that it suffers.

[FrustratedPoet]

Originally posted by Eli
What are you going to say now FP?

I'm going to say that if both sides demonstrated that they were capable of not murdering each other for five minutes then it would be a lot easier to sympathise with the situation.

I'm not anti-Israel or pro-Palestine, but I consider an endless cycle of "You bastards, you killed our people - that means we must kill YOUR people" to be absolutely idiotic.

The apparent inability of either side to think anything other than they are the doing the Right Thing(tm) - and that the other side are Evil Terrorists(tm) - is impossible for me to understand.

The same kind of thing happens in Northern Ireland (a bit less often these days, thankfully) and it's just as stupid there. This kind of mentality is by no means reserved for the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

[Ecthy]

I just love how in the same tone any opposition to Israeli expansionism (should there be any, this is not assumption of general omnipresence) is considered anti-zionism (zionism being the most flexible word in meaning that I have ever heard of) and then some come up with Mr King and his nice piece of wisdom that simplificates any anti-zionism to anti-semitism, as if anyone gave a sh!t 1. what MLK says and 2. especially when he doesn't reason it.

It's like the Bush doctrine. Just here it's be with us or be an anti-semite.

[Ecthy]

paiktis, that was not the point... you can't invert an implication, only an equation.

[Eli]

The apparent inability of either side to think anything other than they are the doing the Right Thing(tm) - and that the other side are Evil Terrorists(tm) - is impossible for me to understand.

Actually I agree with you on this point, but that puts most of the blame on the small uncoordinated cells of fanatical movements than on an organized army that gets it's orders from above and is influenced by world opinion and pressure.

[Ecthy]

Azazel - he probably said it because he doesn't have the means to do it. Support him. Instead of razing police stations, make it easier for him to gain control. Some of the money the US gives you could be helpful here.

And guys, stop destroying all the airports they build with OUR money

[Ecthy]

Eli, FP - but don't we know who actually is on the right side? I mean the very existence of the Israeli state cannot be undone, so it should be clear who the terrorists are. It's just a shame the population in the territories doesn't actually really oppose those cells. Must be lack of education there.

It's also a shame, though, how the population ("they", "the pals") is always set on one stage with the actual criminals whenever something gets blown up. And it's strange what all the infrastructural damage is for. Of course their police stations are not to hide bad guys, but in any civilized nation there'd be means to get evil guys out of a house without destroying the whole settlement. Think Jenin.

[Eli]

Originally posted by Ecthelion
Azazel - he probably said it because he doesn't have the means to do it. Support him. Instead of razing police stations, make it easier for him to gain control. Some of the money the US gives you could be helpful here.

I have an idea!

Let's withdraw from all territories, give the Pal police guns, train the policemen, ignore illegal weapons shipments(we dont want to escalate the situation) and help them get their TV and Radio up and running so that they will use it to teach peace to their children.

Oh, right, havent we tried that in 1993? But I guess we should try again, 1000 dead Israelis and 2500 dead Pals is a small price to pay for the peace of the brave.

[Ecthy]

Oh, talking about Jenin, I was baffled how the action there was actually effective to some degree, there were no terracts for some time after that. Terrified and amused me at the same time.

[Ecthy]

You still sound like the 15 year old guy... who was ever talking about ignoring illegal shipments?

Of course the main priority has to be the elimination of the most evil cells.

But I suppose it's futile to argue anyway. You're just waiting for the S-guy to turn up.

[Eli]

Originally posted by Ecthelion
but in any civilized nation there'd be means to get evil guys out of a house without destroying the whole settlement. Think Jenin.

Are the German police force capable of entering a refugee camp, one of the most densest places in the world, knowing that every square meter in it is booby trapped and that hundreds of armed men guard it and will resist any arrests? What will you do, send in two doughnut-eating policemen to move from house to house and ask all terrorists to lie down their weapons and go to jail?

[Edan]

One of the problems with Abbas is that he's coordinating every move with Arafat, which hardly puts Arafat out of the picture.

[Ecthy]

In Germany, refugee camps can't be booby trapped because 1. there are no refugee camps, people live in cities here and 2. there are camps for asylum seekers, but it's not like they'd stay there longer than a day or 2 (no bull**** now, please) or they'd actually manage to get sh!t in there.