So, can we finally all admit Bush & Co. lied?

[Az]

That makes Utilitarianism utterly useless as a philosophy, as you don't (AFAIK) have the power of prescience.

So, should the end result of the Iraq war end up being a massive destabilization of the ME which results in the horrible deaths of millions, will it then suddenly and retroactively be a bad thing?

Since it only happened recently, we cannot yet fully judge the ethical value of this action. So far, this action, on itself, was good, But you can never judge an action based on itself, only. Because, then, murder would always be wrong ( even in self-defence), etc.. But if steps wouldn't be taken to stop any such escalation, then, indeed it would be a bad thing.

so i guess hitler was good because without him where would be today?

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Azazel
Double Penetration.

That's the spirit !

[Az]

That's the spirit !

You should know.

[Kropotkin]

Sannolikheten, hela sannolikheten och inget annat än sannolikheten.

I thought it was obvious from the start that the US govt was making the best of what they could come up with. It's not the first time. I'm always suprised that people are suprised over this.

[DinoDoc]

I'm not really inclined to believe that the evidence presented to the public was made up whole cloth considering the fact that Iraq's own declaration to the UN during this mess pointed to the conclusion that they had the weapons.

[MRT144]

i forgot to add israel in the original before the edit.

israel was created out of sympathy for what happened to the jews after the holocaust. if hitler had just gone to war and hadnt started extermination i doubt we would see an israel today.

[HershOstropoler]

Dino:

Like what? Even if Iraq had some of this stuff, it's obvious now that Bush and Blair knew jack **** about it, but spit up lies like "usable for atack within 45 minutes" and quantities and blah blah blah. The UN inspectors say their intelligence was crap, and now the US military can't find anything.

Anyway, what I still don't understand is why the Bushies wanted this stupid war so desperately and at any cost.

[Az]

a)I'd give up the creation of Israel to avoid WWII. But that's not the point.
b) I don't think that this would prevent the creation of Israel.

[Jac de Molay]

I agree with boris. An allegedly open, democratic cant rely on misleading/erroneous reasons for a "pre-emptive" war.

And as far as "doing the right thing" in taking out saddams regime, that's BS as well since our country has suffered dictators and madmen gladly for the past thirty years, and turned a blind eye to much worse atrocities.

[MRT144]

why would israel have been created for any other reason than sympathy?

the point is if the end always justified the means then the holocaust was actually a good thing because it led to the creation of israel and i dont believe you think the creation of israel is bad. (unless youre arab or me)

so if the end result is good then it doesnt matter how it got there. which is bull****

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by HershOstropoler
Like what?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2590265.stm

Anyway, what I still don't understand is why the Bushies wanted this stupid war so desperately

I'd like to know that even if you couldn't go two steps in Iraq without tripping over a chemical weapon.

[Az]

The creation of Israel is a good thing. The death of tens of millions of people and the destruction of europe is a bad thing.

[DinoDoc]

Can you two start your own thread?

[HershOstropoler]

Originally posted by DinoDoc

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2590265.stm

That only showed thay can't account for it. There can be many reasons for that. I would have assumed it's to a good part a cover-up... but it still leaves the Bush/Blair claims totally unfounded.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by HershOstropoler
That only showed thay can't account for it.

Iraq could have easily provided a verifiable accounting of it and gutted the reason for the invasion itself.