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Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
I've heard of circular logic, but this may be even beyond that .
Way beyond!
What I think Kidicious may be aluding to is a "value added" tax??
"I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003
You just tax all wealth at the same rate. People who inherit wealth will pay the most tax. The poor will pay none.
Um... that's a contradiction right there. The poor have NO wealth at all? If you think so, what planet are you living on. If not, then why aren't they being taxed?
And why do people who inherit wealth taxed more than people who have the same amount of wealth, but is self-made, if all wealth is taxed at the same rate?
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
So rich people, which create wealth for themselves, are getting a benefit, which is wealth, which makes them rich? And this proves the system is unfair?
Or, rather, since you believe that wealth is a benefit, take a (altered) quote of yours:
the wealthy simply get more wealth (benefits) or they wouldn't be wealthy.
I've heard of circular logic, but this may be even beyond that .
Well there you go. How can we have a decent conversation when you guys are insisting that wealth is not a benefit? What I'm I suppose to say?
I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett Kavanaugh
So, wait, you are saying that the rich get more benefits, and thus the system is unfair. That benefit is WEALTH? So the rich make more wealth (which you must in order to be rich) and so the system is unfair?
How is that an argument?
The system benefits the wealthy more because it allows them to create wealth, which is a benefit? What?!
If I make more money than you, the system unfairly benefits me, because the wealth that I've made is benefit? So how can the system give me unfair benefits to be rich, if to be rich, I must have the benefit?
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
And why do people who inherit wealth taxed more than people who have the same amount of wealth, but is self-made, if all wealth is taxed at the same rate?
People who come from wealthy families have wealth, problem? The little guy who works hard, has a high income, but not as much wealth. So his tax is lower. People living day to day without savings will pay none.
I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett Kavanaugh
People who come from wealthy families have wealth, problem? The little guy who works hard, has a high income, but not as much wealth. So his tax is lower. People living day to day without savings will pay none.
What if the guy who works hard and creates a corporate empire (like Carnegie) has MORE Wealth than the guy that inherited it? Why is the inherited person get taxed at a higher rate?
People who don't have savings (which is an absurdly small portion of the population, just about everyone has some savings) still have wealth in the things they own.
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
So, wait, you are saying that the rich get more benefits, and thus the system is unfair. That benefit is WEALTH? So the rich make more wealth and so the system is unfair?
How is that an argument?
The system benefits the wealthy more because it allows them to create wealth, which is a benefit? What?!
I'll ignore that you keep saying that they are 'creating' wealth so I can say this. The argument is whether the wealthy should pay higher taxes. They recieve higher benefits (as you have stated) so they should have to pay the higher taxes.
I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett Kavanaugh
Kidicious, There are so many problems with your theory that I really cannot begin to list them. Let me simply say that the aquisition and use of wealth is what enables a capitalist system. It is in essence a means of production.
"I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003
The argument is whether the wealthy should pay higher taxes. They recieve higher benefits (as you have stated) so they should have to pay the higher taxes.
So, what you are saying is that they have higher wealth, so they should be taxed more?
Where does 'benefits' come into this? You keep saying wealth is a benefit, and since the system benefits the rich more, they should pay more. But, in order to be rich, you have to make more of the benefit.... so how is the system benefiting them? They are allowing them to make the money? So why do they have to pay more, then, because doesn't the system allow everyone to make money?
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
People who come from wealthy families have wealth, problem? The little guy who works hard, has a high income, but not as much wealth. So his tax is lower. People living day to day without savings will pay none.
What if the guy who works hard and creates a corporate empire (like Carnegie) has MORE Wealth than the guy that inherited it? Why is the inherited person get taxed at a higher rate?
Are you talking about 3 or 4 individuals that come close to representing an agent like Carnegie?
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
People who don't have savings (which is an absurdly small portion of the population, just about everyone has some savings) still have wealth in the things they own.
Man, you are way out of touch with the reality that millions of Americans live.
I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett Kavanaugh
Originally posted by Kidicious
I'll ignore that you keep saying that they are 'creating' wealth so I can say this. The argument is whether the wealthy should pay higher taxes. They recieve higher benefits (as you have stated) so they should have to pay the higher taxes.
Kidicious, The so called "benefit" is in no way related to governmental expenditure. The taxing of wealth is in no way related to its nature (actually, the opposite is true!). What you are advocating is pure and simple redistribution of wealth. Under this type of system, it can be shown, the expansion of an economy slows drastically. Once this happens, it becomes harder to acquire and pass on wealth. Then your tax base is gone. etc...
"I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003
Are you talking about 3 or 4 individuals that come close to representing an agent like Carnegie?
3 or 4? What are you nuts? Just about every family fortune was at one time earned by a person just like Carnegie. Very few families were rich before they got here.
Man, you are way out of touch with the reality that millions of Americans live.
I'd wager that less than 5% of the US population has absolutely no savings at all.
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
Originally posted by PLATO1003
Kidicious, The so called "benefit" is in no way related to governmental expenditure.
Don't add things to what people are saying and you might understand more. When did I say government expenditure? I said they benefit from the present system.
Originally posted by PLATO1003
The taxing of wealth is in no way related to its nature (actually, the opposite is true!). What you are advocating is pure and simple redistribution of wealth. Under this type of system, it can be shown, the expansion of an economy slows drastically. Once this happens, it becomes harder to acquire and pass on wealth. Then your tax base is gone. etc...
That's not true. It won't prove anything necessarily but can you give me some particulars.
I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett Kavanaugh
3 or 4? What are you nuts? Just about every family fortune was at one time earned by a person just like Carnegie. Very few families were rich before they got here.
See you're out of touch. I don't know any actual people who are anything like that, and probably no one I know does either.
I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett Kavanaugh
See your out of touch. I don't know any actual people who are anything like that, and probably know one I know does either.
Actually I'm sure you are out of touch. You have plenty of people on this site talking about how they made wealth and became well off.
You think Ford or Rockefeller or Bell or Dell were rich before they created their empires? What about the founders of all the other items you use on a day to day basis.
I'm sorry you don't know anyone that was born poor or middle class who never became 'rich', but that says more about your friends that it does reality, doesn't it?
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
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