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A summary of trickle down economic theory:

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Kidicious

    The price of production has nothing to do with peoples compensation. The worker only recieves a portion of that price. The portion that he recieves has nothing to do with the price of the thing or service produced.
    If that is the case, then why is it that in the aggregate, the income division between labour and capital stays at roughly 80:20? If the value added, expressed in prices, has nothing to do with it, shouldn't there be change over time?
    “Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)

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    • #32
      MtG:

      "If you're a whining socialist, er, um, liberal, you count every tax at every level to dilute the effect of the bracketing and income tax exemptions of the Federal Income Tax."

      Or if you don't care about the formalities at which level a tax is raised or how it's labelled.

      So how does it look like for overall taxation?

      Btw, if you're a righty, you'll use income tax to measure progressiveness, and you'll use all taxes to express how big the evil government is. If you're a socialist, you do it the other way round.
      “Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)

      Comment

      • #33
        Originally posted by obiwan18
        Kidicious:

        Define productivity as the ability to create wealth within a society. Unproductive workers may earn money, but they do not help others earn money. Productive workers help other people earn money, by hiring them, and by taking on risks.
        All wealth comes from labor. It's just that simple. You can do your job productively or you can be slow, but everything is produced through work.
        Originally posted by obiwan18
        Look at it this way. As an employee, the only stake you have in your company if it fails is your job. The owner has likely invested a substantial portion of his livelihood, oftentimes in a small business, their house.
        What does this have to do with production. Can't you see that to individual has to take a risk for production to occur. The capitalist is simply not even needed, so why do you say that he is the most productive.
        Originally posted by obiwan18
        Finally, the more educated the worker becomes, the more likely her or she is to become a more productive worker. This education represents an investment not needed for a less productive worker.
        Education can make you productive, but what about job experience. Sometimes education is necessary, but it's job experience that really makes a worker productive.
        Originally posted by obiwan18
        Now, it seems fair to me to compensate the productive workers for the risks that they have to take, in the business, in acquiring the training, and for the duty they provide to the public.
        Back to the risks that productive workers take? Working is one thing, but most business owners hire others to do the work. The owners usually do a small portion of the work if any.
        I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
        - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

        Comment

        • #34
          Originally posted by HershOstropoler
          If that is the case, then why is it that in the aggregate, the income division between labour and capital stays at roughly 80:20? If the value added, expressed in prices, has nothing to do with it, shouldn't there be change over time?
          You're right. I didn't realize that I worded it that way.
          I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
          - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

          Comment

          • #35
            If you call corporate taxes flat tax, then I think the overall tax sceme is mostly flat, but a little on the progressive side.
            I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
            - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

            Comment

            • #36
              Originally posted by Kidicious

              All wealth comes from labor. It's just that simple.
              You're forgetting capital.
              www.my-piano.blogspot

              Comment

              • #37
                Originally posted by Urban Ranger

                You don't create wealth by dumping $$$ in the stock market. You create wealth by making something (goods, services) and selling it.
                So China would be just as wealthy if no one bothered to invest there? Why do they seem so desperate for investment then? I agree that capital in and of itself cannot create wealth, but neither can labor. Both have to be put to work at something useful / marketable. Capital is a labor multiplier.
                He's got the Midas touch.
                But he touched it too much!
                Hey Goldmember, Hey Goldmember!

                Comment

                • #38
                  Originally posted by Kidicious

                  Education can make you productive, but what about job experience. Sometimes education is necessary, but it's job experience that really makes a worker productive.
                  This is the most intelligent thing I've seen you post on the subject of economics. Education is very often overrated in economic terms. Of course there are other benefits to education, it can help smooth the rough edges of society, or in the case of women's and ethnic studies, roughen them.
                  He's got the Midas touch.
                  But he touched it too much!
                  Hey Goldmember, Hey Goldmember!

                  Comment

                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Boddington's


                    You're forgetting capital.
                    Of course, but also the entrepreneurship : labor alone can do nothing, as well as capital; but capital and labor need a project and an organization, and that is the job of the entrepreneur.

                    Kidicious, unless you consider the entrepreneur as a worker, I desagree on your statement that all wealth come from the work.
                    Statistical anomaly.
                    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

                    Comment

                    • #40
                      "labor alone can do nothing"

                      It can pick wild fruits!

                      www.my-piano.blogspot

                      Comment

                      • #41
                        Originally posted by DAVOUT


                        Of course, but also the entrepreneurship : labor alone can do nothing, as well as capital; but capital and labor need a project and an organization, and that is the job of the entrepreneur.

                        Kidicious, unless you consider the entrepreneur as a worker, I desagree on your statement that all wealth come from the work.
                        Since we're at it, and for the sake of completeness, you also need land.
                        DISCLAIMER: the author of the above written texts does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for any offence and insult; disrespect, arrogance and related forms of demeaning behaviour; discrimination based on race, gender, age, income class, body mass, living area, political voting-record, football fan-ship and musical preference; insensitivity towards material, emotional or spiritual distress; and attempted emotional or financial black-mailing, skirt-chasing or death-threats perceived by the reader of the said written texts.

                        Comment

                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Colon


                          Since we're at it, and for the sake of completeness, you also need land.
                          I consider the land as part of the organization job : choosing the appropriate place to undertake the project.
                          Statistical anomaly.
                          The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

                          Comment

                          • #43
                            Originally posted by DAVOUT


                            I consider the land as part of the organization job : choosing the appropriate place to undertake the project.
                            Like picking the right employees and attracting capital at good conditions is part of the organisation job. By that reasoning we could just as well get rid of those 2 other means of production and call 'entrepeneurship' the sole means of production.
                            DISCLAIMER: the author of the above written texts does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for any offence and insult; disrespect, arrogance and related forms of demeaning behaviour; discrimination based on race, gender, age, income class, body mass, living area, political voting-record, football fan-ship and musical preference; insensitivity towards material, emotional or spiritual distress; and attempted emotional or financial black-mailing, skirt-chasing or death-threats perceived by the reader of the said written texts.

                            Comment

                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Boddington's
                              You're forgetting capital.
                              Not at all. Capital was produced by labor.
                              I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                              - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

                              Comment

                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Sikander
                                This is the most intelligent thing I've seen you post on the subject of economics.
                                Thanx Sikander.
                                I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                                - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

                                Comment

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