Finally the reason for the war on Iraq

[Lord Merciless]

It's well known that Austrians make good nazis. Hitler was the Nazi head huncho, Heinrich Harrer was a nazi, and even Waldheim.

The really disturbing fact about Austrians is that they dumped all the blames upon Germans, played a role of a victim, and never went through any denazification process. Otherwise, you can't really explain how Waldheim ended up as UN general secretary, can you?

Today, Austrian still makes up the most nazi population in Europe. Electing Haider to government is probably the most definitive indication for that.

And yet some Austrians have the face to teach America a lesson in democracy?!

[HershOstropoler]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Says the guy in the state where Democrats gave out cigarettes to homeless people to get them to vote . Love the irony!

So we can agree that the US is a Banana Republic. Well, that's settled.

[Whaleboy]

And people thought kissing babies was bad.

[Imran Siddiqui]

LM:

So we can agree that the US is a Banana Republic.

Because nothing fraudlent ever happens in European democracies .

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Kirnwaffen

Your friends base their view of America strictly on the basis of the Anti-American sentiment that has been instilled in them since they were children.

No one ever instilled Ant-American sentiment in me. For most of my youth, like most people where I come from, I was quite pro-American. I became Anti-American for two reasons.

(1) They behaved like childish bullies because we told them "no nukes in our back yard" and it was our back yard, not theirs.

(2) I read about all the rotten things they've done in the name of "freedom".

[Odin]

Irman, 0.000000000000000001/10 on your troll, the senate gives the less populated states, which are usually conservative, equal power to the very densely polpulated states, violating the "1 person, 1 vote" ethos that state legislatures are required to have.

[Victor Galis]

Well, the fact remains that if the Electoral College votes were 100% proportional to the population of the states they represented, Gore would be in the White House (read that as: the total population of the states Gore won was greater than the total population of the states Bush won).

Then there's all the irregularities (on both sides) in the Florida election. No amount of debate will ever settle what actually happened in Florida. When the margin is under 1000 votes, so many minor issues suddenly matter.

[Whaleboy]

"It's well known that Austrians make good nazis"

Which is not to say that all Austrians are nazis. One could use that argument against Britain because of the rise of the BNP and NF (different issues there).

Anyway methinks that is crossing a line there, as opposed to actually attacking the arguments.

[HershOstropoler]

Originally posted by Lord Merciless
It's well known that Austrians make good nazis. Hitler was the Nazi head huncho, Heinrich Harrer was a nazi, and even Waldheim.

The really disturbing fact about Austrians is that they dumped all the blames upon Germans, played a role of a victim, and never went through any denazification process. Otherwise, you can't really explain how Waldheim ended up as UN general secretary, can you?

Today, Austrian still makes up the most nazi population in Europe. Electing Haider to government is probably the most definitive indication for that.

Ah I see, Waldheim ended up as UN general secretary because of all his fellow nazis in, ia, the US and the USSR. You're such a bright bulb.

As for Haider, he'd be expelled from the Republican party as a whiny wet lefty on most issue.

Btw, Sound of Music makes a much better troll than the NSDAP as far as I'm concerned. Wanna try again?

[HershOstropoler]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
LM:

So we can agree that the US is a Banana Republic.

Because nothing fraudlent ever happens in European democracies .

Compared to you, our fraudulent actions are negligable. But tell me, what was the last major forgery at austrian elections, hmm?

[DanS]

Unlike the US

Well, in the case of Iraq, I don't think WOMD or terrorism was what drove public opinion primarily. The %-age of Americans who wanted to take out Hussein was remarkably steady the whole 12 years between GWI and GWII. The threats were all over the map during this period. This leads me to believe that Sloww is probably right. Quite simply, Americans thought he was bad news and needed to be put down.

I doubt the American people will raise a fuss if no WOMD are found. Nobody has really been critical of the president for this yet. They've only been concerned if the intelligence was bad, whether we were relying too much on human intelligence who hald ulterior motives, or if Bush et al. tweaked the intelligence.

[Whaleboy]

Lets lay off the Austrians... their women are hot and their beer is beautiful on a stiflingly hot british summers day.... anyone know how to make an air conditioner for less than £20?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Irman, 0.000000000000000001/10 on your troll, the senate gives the less populated states, which are usually conservative, equal power to the very densely polpulated states, violating the "1 person, 1 vote" ethos that state legislatures are required to have.

No troll at all. The Senate is a place where each State, which is its own seperate government has equal say. Just like the UN gives each country its own vote.

It is one state, one vote. I don't see how that violates democracy because they are each picked democratically according to our republican ideals.

Democracy simply means rule of the people. Doesn't say in which way it must be done.

the fact remains that if the Electoral College votes were 100% proportional to the population of the states they represented, Gore would be in the White House

But it wasn't. That's not the way our democratic system was set up.

Then there's all the irregularities (on both sides) in the Florida election.

Don't forget Chicago and most of the Midwestern states. In the 2002 elections, there is ample evidence that massive voter fraud in South Dakota gave the election to the Democrat. The only difference was that in Florida it was so close that it actually was brought to light. In most cases, the vote is so far in one direction, who cares?

[Lord Merciless]

Originally posted by elijah
"It's well known that Austrians make good nazis"

Which is not to say that all Austrians are nazis. One could use that argument against Britain because of the rise of the BNP and NF (different issues there).

Anyway methinks that is crossing a line there, as opposed to actually attacking the arguments.

I'm only returning a troll in kind.

[Kirnwaffen]

Not really, most Arabs while generally not liking Saddam, were generally opposed to the war to a greater degree.

Enlighten me as to how that argument counters anything I said.

Au contrare, they use much greater historical, legal and moral bases for their arguments than I ever could. I stick to philosophy... safer ground

Fair enough. I did not quite confine my statement to the degree I should have. It would be more accurate to say they have no basis for comparison between Saddam's permanent rule and America's temporary rule.

As for your last bit, I would agree wholeheartedly if the US had any intention of ruling Iraq for the long term. As it stands, I do not believe that is the case. Therefore, this is not a choice between an American leader and an Arab leader, but a choice between an elected leader and a despot.