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WWII fighter beauty contest.

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  • #121
    Originally posted by DinoDoc
    Then how can we decide if a plain is the most important allied fighter if we only focus on 1/2 the conflict?
    The debate has been implicitly devoted to what was the most important western-allied plane in the European theater. I have understood it to be that way and I believe most people (mind you of course) have too.
    A true ally stabs you in the front.

    Secretary General of the U.N. & IV Emperor of the Glory of War PTWDG | VIII Consul of Apolyton PTW ISDG | GoWman in Stormia CIVDG | Lurker Troll Extraordinaire C3C ISDG Final | V Gran Huevote Team Latin Lover | Webmaster Master Zen Online | CivELO (3°)

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    • #122
      Master Zen:

      and the Mirage 2000 which might be better than even the F-16.
      "Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
      "I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi

      Comment

      • #123
        Originally posted by Fez


        Yes but I think Italian companies were the ones flipping most of the bill. And thus Italy got far more shipments of it.

        Italy has 129 AMX fighters in total and Brazil has only 41.

        Source:
        http://www.mylima.com/airforce
        I don't know the exact detals on the colaboration but yes, Italy has been the major partner but it nevertheless considered a joint venture as EMBRAER has had a major part of the devolpment.

        I recall the ads on Jane's years ago and it did have both the italian and brazilian firms as the colaborators.
        A true ally stabs you in the front.

        Secretary General of the U.N. & IV Emperor of the Glory of War PTWDG | VIII Consul of Apolyton PTW ISDG | GoWman in Stormia CIVDG | Lurker Troll Extraordinaire C3C ISDG Final | V Gran Huevote Team Latin Lover | Webmaster Master Zen Online | CivELO (3°)

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        • #124
          Originally posted by Albert Speer
          Master Zen:

          and the Mirage 2000 which might be better than even the F-16.
          I don't think so.
          For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

          Comment

          • #125
            Originally posted by Master Zen


            I don't know the exact detals on the colaboration but yes, Italy has been the major partner but it nevertheless considered a joint venture as EMBRAER has had a major part of the devolpment.

            I recall the ads on Jane's years ago and it did have both the italian and brazilian firms as the colaborators.
            I again disagree somewhat on this statement. I would assume Italy had a greater part in the project thus receiving great amounts of the aircraft, because of the larger budget of the Italian military.
            For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

            Comment

            • #126
              Originally posted by Albert Speer
              Master Zen:

              and the Mirage 2000 which might be better than even the F-16.
              According to some people yes, the Mirage 2000 is superior to the F-16. Many latin american countries have the Mirage 2000 as the US has been rather reluctant to release the F-16 over here (only Venezuela has it, and Chile just ordered some).

              Edit: changed "many" to "some" as there's a lot of debate to this.
              A true ally stabs you in the front.

              Secretary General of the U.N. & IV Emperor of the Glory of War PTWDG | VIII Consul of Apolyton PTW ISDG | GoWman in Stormia CIVDG | Lurker Troll Extraordinaire C3C ISDG Final | V Gran Huevote Team Latin Lover | Webmaster Master Zen Online | CivELO (3°)

              Comment

              • #127
                Originally posted by Fez


                I again disagree somewhat on this statement. I would assume Italy had a greater part in the project thus receiving great amounts of the aircraft, because of the larger budget of the Italian military.
                It's not a matter of who gets more, but who contributed the most to the development process. Yes, I too said that Italy had the major share in both, where's the disagreement?
                A true ally stabs you in the front.

                Secretary General of the U.N. & IV Emperor of the Glory of War PTWDG | VIII Consul of Apolyton PTW ISDG | GoWman in Stormia CIVDG | Lurker Troll Extraordinaire C3C ISDG Final | V Gran Huevote Team Latin Lover | Webmaster Master Zen Online | CivELO (3°)

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                • #128
                  Originally posted by Master Zen


                  According to many people yes, the Mirage 2000 is superior to the F-16. Many latin american countries have the Mirage 2000 as the US has been rather reluctant to release the F-16 over here (only Venezuela has it, and Chile just ordered some).
                  That is false. The Mirage 2000 is not better than the F-16 and isn't even close.

                  Name one country in Latin America that has the Mirage 2000. Argentina has old Mirage 5s and IIIs.. Peru has MiG-29s.. Ecuador has Jaguars.. Colombia has Israeli Built aircraft...

                  Edit: Actually I was mistaken. Peru does have a small batch of Mirage 2000. But that was all I could find on the presence of this aircraft here in Latin America.
                  For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

                  Comment

                  • #129
                    Originally posted by Master Zen


                    It's not a matter of who gets more, but who contributed the most to the development process. Yes, I too said that Italy had the major share in both, where's the disagreement?
                    Okay I guess I misintrepreted your post. English is not my first language.
                    For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

                    Comment

                    • #130
                      the two Spaniards sparing off...
                      "Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
                      "I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi

                      Comment

                      • #131
                        Originally posted by Albert Speer
                        the two Spaniards sparing off...
                        I thought he is Mexican?

                        You really should be careful when making sweeping generalizations like that.
                        For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

                        Comment

                        • #132
                          whatever... Mexicans are of spanish descent... the latin and the spaniard are sparing off...
                          "Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
                          "I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi

                          Comment

                          • #133
                            Originally posted by Albert Speer
                            whatever... Mexicans are of spanish descent... the latin and the spaniard are sparing off...
                            You are doing it again.

                            I am actually latin. He is considered latino. If I have this right..
                            For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

                            Comment

                            • #134
                              alright... god damn... the two people who are of spanish descent and both speak spanish are sparing off...

                              always got to make it difficult, Fez...
                              "Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
                              "I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi

                              Comment

                              • #135
                                That is how I am, Al. I always make things more complicated than they really are.

                                Well I am going to bed anyways.. I am guessing my mexican friend will have to aswell.
                                For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

                                Comment

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