WWII fighter beauty contest.

[Joseph]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
Fez:

The Me262 was a very effective aircraft. the problem was that Germany lacked the experienced pilots to pilot it, they lacked the jet fuel, and the engine needed to be refitted constantly... still, even with usually no more than four Me262's taking on whole bomber formations, they were amazingly effective, rarely suffering loses and taking down plenty of Allied aircraft. Some historians hypothesize that if the Germans had actually been able to get all their Me262's up in the air at the same time, they would have shot down hundreds of allied planes.

Thanks to Hitler the plane was delay. He wanted it to be a bomber and would not let them used it has a fighter until it was to late.
Actually the British Meteor and the American F-80 was ready to fight, but the US did not send any over to Europe because the war was almost over. The Meteor was used in England only to shoot down V-1s.

[Joseph]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
Joseph:

I think you know why... P-51 pilots learned that the Me262's were most vulnerable when landing because if suddenly attacked, they could not quickly accelerate to escape the American planes... most P-51's that shot down Me262's did so with this tactic

There was one or two times the P-51 shot down a Me 262 in a dog fight. If I remember the story correct, the 51 guy made the 262 chase him down to a low height around 10, to 15,000 level and slow down and let the 262 get in front of him and then turn inside of the 262 and got him. As you said, a 262 could not turn at lower alt. and did not have a fast get away and was nailed.

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
Master Zen:

A lot of people exaggerate the indian/black mixture in hispanics... a place like Puerto Rico for example had the native population wiped out at the start of colonization and there never was a significant slave population so Puerto Ricans are basically the same as any Castillian or Catalonyan. the same can be repeated through most latin american countries where the native population is pretty low and blacks were not too known for freely mixing with the Spanish population. Though countries like Bolivia and Peru are mostly native or native/Spanish and Brazil and Trinidad are black or black/european, the typical Latin American is mostly Spanish.

Plenty of people in the US are mixed but they still consider themselves a certain thing... an average black person could easily say they are a quarter Seminole and 1/8th Scotch-Irish but they would still say they are black. A white person would also still say he is white though his grandmother may have been a Cherokee. Why Spanish in Latin America take these percentages and suddenly declare themselves a new race is beyond me

thanks

I disagree.

I will give Mexico as an example. there are 30% pure indians, 60% mestizo (mix of white/indian) and 10% pure white (european descent). However, those 60% mestizo can have anything from 1-99% indian (or european) blood.

Regarding some other "whiter" countries, like Argentina, most of the immigrants are not spanish, but german and italian. Same with Brazil which has a huge percentage of whites.

Why we consider ourselves a new race? Easy, the majority of latinamericans happen to be mestizo. And such a race did not exist pre 1492. And unlike blending in other countries, it has nowhere been on the scale as in latin america. And it just so happens the grand majority of a group of over 500 million people share this trait.

Ask any latinamerican, even if he is a 100% white if he considers himself "spanish" or "european" and you'll get the answer: NO. Cultural identity goes far beyond technical aspects of ethnicity, and latinamericans are a whole new flavor in the racial Baskin Robbins.

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Joseph
There was one or two times the P-51 shot down a Me 262 in a dog fight. If I remember the story correct, the 51 guy made the 262 chase him down to a low height around 10, to 15,000 level and slow down and let the 262 get in front of him and then turn inside of the 262 and got him. As you said, a 262 could not turn at lower alt. and did not have a fast get away and was nailed.

The Me 262 could be out-turned at any altitude actually, if anything it was is only significant dogfighting flaw.

Mustang, Spitfire and Tempest pilots shot down Me 262s more frecuently than just 1 or 2 times, it did however, take great skill to do so. Chuck Yeager was one of the Mustang pilots to do it. At the end of the war Meteors were brought to the continent to deal with the Me 262 but there was no recorded combat between these planes.

[Joseph]

Serb.
The Russian Air Force is going to destroy the one and only example of the Myasishchev M-52. The plane is at Ramenskoye air field. Serb if you know anyone, ask them not to destroy it. Put it in a museum for all to see. There is a nice picture of the Sukhoi T-4 on page 89 of the International Air Power Review Volume 7 of 2003 Issue. Also in this picture, I see a F-4. Where did you guys steal it?
I guess, we will have to invade to get it back.
Its after midnight here, so I will leave now.

[Kramerman]

Originally posted by Master Zen


or probably because it was far superior to any other plane of its time?

From what Ive read on the Me-262 (which is quite limited, mind you), it seems the only way it was superiuor to allied fighters was in its speed. Its maneuverabilty appearently wasnt great, and due to its large cannons, it's ammo capacity was quite limited. The plane definately had potential in that it was a stepping stone, but in and of itself, it was no super plane of the time. Regardless, its introduction was so late it was ineffectual to teh war, and Hitler's misuse of them wasnt helpful either.

[Kramerman]

Originally posted by Joseph
The Mitchel is a B-25. The B-24 was know as the Liberator.

typo... ihonestly meant b-25...

The liberator was pretty nice looking too... as was the b-17...

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Kramerman


From what Ive read on the Me-262 (which is quite limited, mind you), it seems the only way it was superiuor to allied fighters was in its speed. Its maneuverabilty appearently wasnt great, and due to its large cannons, it's ammo capacity was quite limited. The plane definately had potential in that it was a stepping stone, but in and of itself, it was no super plane of the time. Regardless, its introduction was so late it was ineffectual to teh war, and Hitler's misuse of them wasnt helpful either.

Well most Allied pilots considered it they hardest plane to down, so I guess there was a reason for that. Allied strategy was also to catch it on the ground before or shortly after takeoff which proves it was more than a match for them at altitude. But as you say, Hitler's misuse of them made them far less potent that they could have if they had been introduced one year before...

[Hueij]

I can't believe no one mentioned the Fokker G.I-1, pride of the Royal Dutch Airforce. Too bad they were to little too late...

[Serb]

Originally posted by Joseph
Serb.
The Russian Air Force is going to destroy the one and only example of the Myasishchev M-52. The plane is at Ramenskoye air field. Serb if you know anyone, ask them not to destroy it. Put it in a museum for all to see.

I doubt they will hear me. Such bastards don't care about our history. Damn, I hate them.

There is a nice picture of the Sukhoi T-4 on page 89 of the International Air Power Review Volume 7 of 2003 Issue. Also in this picture, I see a F-4. Where did you guys steal it?

From Vietnam more probably.

I guess, we will have to invade to get it back.

Be me guest.

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Hueij
I can't believe no one mentioned the Fokker G.I-1, pride of the Royal Dutch Airforce. Too bad they were to little too late...

I had never seen that plane before. Very attractive twin-boom aircraft especially considering twin-boom aircraft are usually pretty ugly.

[Frozzy]

The Fokker C.X and D.XXI were mostly sold to the Finns, and they were moderately successful. The Fokker G-I look somewhat like the Focke Wulf FW-190, but only 36 prototypes were made, of which 3 saw service in May, 1940. In reality, it was too little too late.

I have 5 favourite WWII fighterplanes: Messerschmitt 262A-2, Supermarine Spitfire, Hawker Hurricane, de Havilland Mosquito and Fokker G-I.

[Hueij]

This one is for Master Zen







A lot of stuff about the Dutch Airforce in WW2 can be found here: http://www.geocities.com/blerkenstein/klu/index.htm

[Az]

Actually the British Meteor and the American F-80 was ready to fight, but the US did not send any over to Europe because the war was almost over. The Meteor was used in England only to shoot down V-1s.

I don't think so. Mind you, even during Korea, the Americans didn't have enough jet fighters in the beginning of the war, even the F-80s, so they had to rely on the Mustangs as the bulk of their fighter power.


The Me-262 was indeed a plane superior to everything else in WWII. It's jet engines were much more powerful than the prop engines, allowing it to outclimb and outfly the Allied fighters. They did have a weakness in turning, But the climbing and speed more than compensated for it. Esp. since speed and climbing are very important factors in bomber interceptor roles.

IF the Me-262 was introduced as a fighter in decent numbers, esp. countering Allied air raids in the west, things COULD have been much tougher for the western front.

[Panda]

For me, the Spitfire is a must win. This is the Mk VIII