Is it time to think things over? Chimps are people too.

[Zero]

Originally posted by Eli
I wonder how long will it take for some missionary to try and convert them to Christianity.

they wont. Christianity regards humans as different from other animals. (The whole humans were created in gods images stuff).

Im guessing aliens wont be trated with equality according to christianity too. (if aliens exist)

[reds4ever]

Originally posted by Zero


they wont. Christianity regards humans as different from other animals. (The whole humans were created in gods images stuff).

Im guessing aliens wont be trated with equality according to christianity too. (if aliens exist)

If aliens exist, the God-botherers will be too busy patching up the holes in the Bible to worry too much.

[Zero]

Originally posted by reds4ever


If aliens exist, the God-botherers will be too busy patching up the holes in the Bible to worry too much.

nah they'll play off just as they did with Dinosaurs: "Bible only mentions things that needed to be mentioned"

Disclaimer: If you wanna believe that its upto you. No need to go into this cause its matter of believing. This thread is about chimps so lets stay on topic.

[St Leo]

All Austrolophithecines and Pongids should be considered Hominids.

Unless chimps are truly sentient - i.e. can produce abstract thoughts, I don't think that they should have rights of a person.

I can assert that they can and you can assert that they can't all day and we won't get anywhere.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Ramo
Unless chimps are truly sentient - i.e. can produce abstract thoughts, I don't think that they should have rights of a person.

I disagree. Sentience is self-awareness, thus any creatures that can demonstrate such a trait should be granted the same rights as humans.

Abstract thought is too imprecise a term.

[Az]

again, what is the connection between being intelligent and being given rights?

[Zero]

Originally posted by Azazel
again, what is the connection between being intelligent and being given rights?

none. what is the connection between being human and being given rights? same answer.

[Az]

none. what is the connection between being human and being given rights? same answer.

There is a connection. Naturally, rights do not exist, but they're means that are agreed upon by society to keep itself in peace and stability, and good relations between the people, which are crucial to our survival and prosperity as a species. If Chimps are not a part of our species, their rights are not crucial to our survival as a species, and therefore do not have to be granted in the first place.

[Zero]

Originally posted by Azazel

none. what is the connection between being human and being given rights? same answer.

There is a connection. Naturally, rights do not exist, but they're means that are agreed upon by society to keep itself in peace and stability, and good relations between the people, which are crucial to our survival and prosperity as a species. If Chimps are not a part of our species, their rights are not crucial to our survival as a species, and therefore do not have to be granted in the first place.

i dont want to sound racists, but we dont need to survive as a species. and I dont want to go too deep into that.

[Az]

i dont want to sound racists, but we dont need to survive as a species. and I dont want to go too deep into that.

no, please! Clarify!

[Zero]

As you have pointed out well, Survival of Chimps does not affect our survival needs. But eventually, these classification breaks down and all organisms has to concern itself with its own survival. Which means survival as a species isnt really a big issue. You statement is true and I'd agree but I also would agree on much more smaller scale: rights of our neighbors is not crucial to our survival as a clan and therefore do not have to be granted in the first place.

Our goal is survival, not survial as a species. Which means we can achieve this with 50% humans having rights, 20% 98%... etc and have no problem with it as long as its practical. But the reason we pursue for all human rights isnt for practicality. Its for ethical and moral pursuit.

Im have something on tip of my tongue but I think that will have to wait for now cause its nearing 3AM here and my ability to think is noticebaly declining.

[Az]

I know what you mean. get some sleep.

[Zero]

Originally posted by Azazel
I know what you mean. get some sleep.

okay so i dont have to go deep enough? cause i felt like i was dancing around the subject but not quite there.

anyways we're quite offtopic. and im going to sleep.

[Az]

Good Night!

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Azazel

none. what is the connection between being human and being given rights? same answer.

There is a connection. Naturally, rights do not exist, but they're means that are agreed upon by society to keep itself in peace and stability, and good relations between the people, which are crucial to our survival and prosperity as a species.
If Chimps are not a part of our species, their rights are not crucial to our survival as a species, and therefore do not have to be granted in the first place.

I doubt see why you would delimit based on species?

I don't believe rights are given for our survival and prosperity. Humans have survived and prospered for millenia without such rights. For many centuries the 'white species' survived and prospered and justified slavery using an analagous type of argument you gave, saying that 'blacks' were sub-human.