Is it time to think things over? Chimps are people too.

[Wernazuma III]

Re: Is it time to think things over? Chimps are people too.

Originally posted by Azazel
For some reason, this is extremely troubling me.

Why? Actually medical testing and maltreatment of apes, even more if chimps and bonobos (because they're used more often) has troubled me already before this study.
What change does it make it name them "human". Hey, it's still not the same species as we can't mix-breed (I wouldn't want to know who tried that ) and we already knew beofre that they're feeling, sentient individuals with different characters and abilities.
Somehow I must miss the point of the study (or at least I miss why such categorization can be so important.

[Az]

I have no problem with being an elitist Genus. if we were a normal species, we wouldn't have to do it, we'd just munch everything away, without having any moral constraints.

I don't know about you, but on visits to the zoo, in pictures or on TV, I get the 'feeling' of humanity when i look in a chimps eyes.

I know what you mean. But it's more of an eye feature than a primate feature. Look at a dog's eyes. They're just as "human".

[reds4ever]

Originally posted by Azazel
I have no problem with being an elitist Genus. if we were a normal species, we wouldn't have to do it, we'd just munch everything away, without having any moral constraints.

I don't know about you, but on visits to the zoo, in pictures or on TV, I get the 'feeling' of humanity when i look in a chimps eyes.

I know what you mean. But it's more of an eye feature than a primate feature. Look at a dog's eyes. They're just as "human".

But you look at a primate and you can feel a connection, like its thinking 'what are you looking at' or whatever, I've got a dog at home and when he looks at me it just means he want some food or to go for a p1ss!

[GePap]

I would not classify chimps as part of the genus Homo, if only becuase they are not upright, and I thin that should be an important devide.

Classifying chimps to the genus homo would change little, given what we know of humanities acts towards fellow member of the genus homo, and even to its own species. I think the ethical questions about what we do to creatures like chimps, and dolphins (neither human, but showing some level of intelligence and understanding, if low) c are as valid without them being in our genus and I thgink avoiding causing harm and misery to animals in general is a good idea overall.

[Shi Huangdi]

We only need have loyalty to our own species, Chimps should be available for medical testing when nessecary.

[Az]

Re: Re: Is it time to think things over? Chimps are people too.

Originally posted by Wernazuma III


Why? Actually medical testing and maltreatment of apes, even more if chimps and bonobos (because they're used more often) has troubled me already before this study.
What change does it make it name them "human". Hey, it's still not the same species as we can't mix-breed (I wouldn't want to know who tried that ) and we already knew beofre that they're feeling, sentient individuals with different characters and abilities.
Somehow I must miss the point of the study (or at least I miss why such categorization can be so important.

A very important point Werna, it flew right across me.

AFAIK, humans and chimps cannot interbreed. But who would be the monster that would try it?




I'd like to point out that for me, the issue is very important. If something is human, only then can ethics apply to it. Ethics exist ONLY in the human context, the effects things have on humans. Therefore, this is a very important question. I find it weird that people completely ignore this under the presumption of " even if they're not human we shouldn't harm them". I'll put the validity of that claim aside, and I'd like to emphasize the big difference them being human would make. Education system of sorts, rights, name, and a full introduction to human society.

[Az]

We only need have loyalty to our own species, Chimps should be available for medical testing when nessecary.

Exactly. Though the psychological damage to humans maltreating chimps should be considered.

[Dauphin]

I don't really care about the genetics or the nomenclature. What is more important is how 'human' they are in their abilities and thought processes. I've heard they can communicate abstract thought, have a proto-language, display standard human emotions, demonstrate mathematical abilities etc...

If humans are given rights, then surely so too they should be given them. I would not go as far as to say they have human rights, but they should have something equivalent.

[BeBMan]

Re: Re: Re: Is it time to think things over? Chimps are people too.

Originally posted by Azazel
I'd like to point out that for me, the issue is very important. If something is human, only then can ethics apply to it. Ethics exist ONLY in the human context, the effects things have on humans. Therefore, this is a very important question. I find it weird that people completely ignore this under the presumption of " even if they're not human we shouldn't harm them". I'll put the validity of that claim aside, and I'd like to emphasize the big difference them being human would make. Education system of sorts, rights, name, and a full introduction to human society.

But what exactly does it mean to be human? Is it enough to have to over 99% of the same genes?

Edit. haven´t seen Big Crunch´s post before writing mine

[Az]

But what exactly does it mean to be human? Is it enough to have to over 99% of the same genes?

That's one of the main question of the thread, child.

If humans are given rights, then surely so too they should be given them. I would not go as far as to say they have human rights, but they should have something equivalent.

How come? if they're human, they should be given full rights. If they're not, they're are not a part of our species, and society, and ethics do not apply to them outside the context of interaction with humans.

[reds4ever]

We'd better hope that whatever extraterrestrial species makes first contact with mankind has a different attitude to us than we do to the chimps.

If they are vastly more developed than us, would that give them the right to use us for medical testing?

[Japher]

Oh. I see. never bothered to open that thread, since it had a funny/stupid looking title.

Judging the book by the cover, eh?

Bigot!

[Az]

We'd better hope that whatever extraterrestrial species makes first contact with mankind has a different attitude to us than we do to the chimps.

If they are vastly more developed than us, would that give them the right to use us for medical testing?

I have little doubt they will have any different attitude.

Japher:

[BeBMan]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Azazel

That's one of the main question of the thread, child.
[/q]


Yeah, I should be more precise I wanted to know your current position about this.

[Az]

A human is a person who's parents are human.

But this is rather simplistic, and makes for a circular argument.

I'll try to answer it tomorrow. As you know, it's almost midnight here, and I have classes tomorrow.