SARS is getting worse not better.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Oerdin


The same. Crushing Macao would make people in HK think one country two systems wasn't working. You see they are evil but really only in the poor hungry, you must do exactly what I tell you or else sort of way.

I don't understand your last sentence. What do you mean?

I've got to call it a night. Talk to you all later.

[mindseye]

Re: Re: Re: Try travelling your own ****ing country. Things aren't pretty outside of HK

Originally posted by Zylka


Oh. The seven year wonder, I guess

From my apartment, on a clear day, I can see about 300 high-rises (buildings of, say 15 stories or higher). In 1996, that number would have been about 50. In 1990, it was probably about 5. So yes, I suppose that qualifies as a wonder.

[mindseye]

Then they found out that aids was a problem and that perhaphes tens of thousands got aids because the government was trying to save pennies.

Actually, I think the number is much larger than "tens of thousands".

[DaShi]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Try travelling your own ****ing country. Things aren't pretty outside of HK

Originally posted by mindseye


From my apartment, on a clear day, I can see about 300 high-rises (buildings of, say 15 stories or higher). In 1996, that number would have been about 50. In 1990, it was probably about 5. So yes, I suppose that qualifies as a wonder.

Cool. Actually I was impressed when I visited Shanghai for the second time after only a year away. The new subway was running. It was great.

[ranskaldan]

This argument about "good" and "evil" is really getting nowhere. Governments of larger nations are usually pragmatic and amoral, and China is no exception.

[Dinner]

Some are more amoral then others. some have turned amorality into a way of life.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Some are more amoral then others. some have turned amorality into a way of life.

Hey, stick with the topic. It's about China, not the US.

[RedFred]

What? I thought that the topic was SARS.

Is it just me, or do others find people coughing without covering their mouths or spitting in public even more offensive than prior to the SARS outbreak?

[Jack_www]

ranskaldan well i sure hope that your outlook on the future of China is right, because the day when China stops abusing human rights that will be great day. For me If I had a choice right now of living in USA or CHina i would have to pick USA or even Europe, because for one the standard of living is higher, but I know that Chinese economy is growing though. And second I know that my rights are protected, while in China there is no protections, they dont brother you today, but what if some other party officals come in and want to crack down??

Yes this was on SARS, but is more about how the government of China handeld SARS and that led to disscussion of the other problems they have in China.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Oerdin
PRC has a pattern of trying to ignore health issues and hoping they will go away. Do you folks remember the Aids tanted blood incident from a few years back?

Another point is that this is not exclusive to China.

The British government hid information about mad cow disease for years.

The US government's school lunch programme used to buy meat from suppliers that were known to be unhygenic and refused to check the meat for health standards. The US government also refuses to do extensive testing for mad cow disease.

The Canadian Red Cross hid information about HIV contaminated blood for years.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Jack_www
ranskaldan well i sure hope that your outlook on the future of China is right, because the day when China stops abusing human rights that will be great day. For me If I had a choice right now of living in USA or CHina i would have to pick USA or even Europe, because for one the standard of living is higher, but I know that Chinese economy is growing though. And second I know that my rights are protected, while in China there is no protections, they dont brother you today, but what if some other party officals come in and want to crack down??

Well I wouldn't live in the US right now given the recent Homeland security policies being implemented. I don't even want to travel there on transit. I feel much safer in Hong Kong, even with the SARS.

But it is easy to complain about stuff.

How would you go about improving human rights in Mainland China?

[ranskaldan]

(continuation to Tingkai's question)
Keep in mind that in China:

1) The middle class is still very small (5-10%) and cannot yet sustain stable, moderate opposition parties.

2) Come to think of it, all the talented people who could have been leading opposition parties are already working in the Communist Party.

3) Rule of law is still being established in many areas. But in most places it is corruption, not law, that runs society.

4) Around 75% of China's population is rural, and they are all trying simultaneously to enter the cities to find work. If all of them were allowed to do so at once public services would simply collapse.

5) In the privatization process, many government-owned enterprises have been forced to shut down, and they have laid off many workers, who have no experience in any other field and are basically valueless in the job market. They are now selling apples and clothing on Chinese streets, and agitating for revenge.

6) In the ideological void, many Chinese citizens are turning to nationalistic fervor (let's nuke Japan now!), Maoist idiocy (down with capitalism!) or religious gibberish (the wheel of karma will cure you of SARS).

7) Every single country is watching and commenting on every move made.

Running a country isn't exactly about "let me enact this law", "let me be nicer here", etc. It's much more complex than that and problems are rarely easily solved.

[mindseye]

4) Around 75% of China's population is rural, and they are all trying simultaneously to enter the cities to find work.

I've heard this phenomena called the largest migration in human history, in terms of sheer numbers. The social, political, and economic repurcussions are staggering.

[LoneWolf]

Well, I've said this before, but apparently it didn't stick.
SARS is a media event. 250,000 people die every day, 3,000 just from malaria. In 1918, 600,000 died from the flu in the US. Now THAT is an epidemic. Equal to 1.5 million today. The only year in which the US population has declined.
I feel bad for those who have died, and their families, but it is not a major event.

[alva]

The Canadian Red Cross hid information about HIV contaminated blood for years.

So has France,..Germany...

Why is everyone here so reluctant to critisize it's own country? The last time I looked around, Utopia wasn't there (yet...)

" never trust your goverment "