SARS is getting worse not better.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by ranskaldan
Besides, it is the American government that allowed guns to be legal in the first place.

No. It was and is the American people. For all their faults, only a fool would say that their government is the source of that particular problem. That's the big difference, the American government doesn't allow much of anything. The American people allow their government certain things.

btw, we have guns in Canada too. For now. Lots of them. And we'll always have them, because the biggest gun mart in the world is just so close... The government of Canada would be foolish to ever try to fight the wind.

We don't have the same problems with gun violence, for the most part. How do you figure that?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Tingkai
Nothing happens. I've taken part in protests against the Beijing government, such as the June 4 memorials for Tienanmien Square.

Mind you, there's nothing comparable to the high levels of contempt for Bush. Well, maybe for the local government, but not Beijing.

We have politicians and religious leaders speaking out against the Beijing government.

All varieties of religions and cults are practiced where UR and I live.

The problem with outside observers is that they perceive China as a monolith and they think that the Chinese government cracks down on every single thing in China. It's more complex than that.

The really funny thing is you still haven't figured it out. Here's a hint: I said Urban Ranger and I have these freedoms. But I didn't mention Ranskaldan. Do you get it now?

I'm finding all this hard to believe. Do you have laws in China that protect these rights?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Tingkai
The really funny thing is you still haven't figured it out. Here's a hint: I said Urban Ranger and I have these freedoms. But I didn't mention Ranskaldan. Do you get it now?

No, I figured out a long time ago that China was as you describe. Now, what about the other billion or more people who don't live in Hong Kong and a few other 'enlightened' points?

[ranskaldan]

Originally posted by notyoueither


No, I figured out a long time ago that China was as you describe. Now, what about the other billion or more people who don't live in Hong Kong?

Their lives have become much freer, wealthier, and happier over the last 20 years, and will become even better over the next 20.

You can't jump from step 1 to step 100. The country would collapse like that. But you can walk, or even run. And China is running.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Kidicious


I'm finding all this hard to believe. Do you have laws in China that protect these rights?

Yes, it is a Chinese law called the Basic Law that has been respected and upheld by the Chinese central government. It applies to the great Chinese city Hong Kong.

Some people will say "well that's Hong Kong" and they would be right. But the important thing to remember is that the PRC Central Government has not violated the Basic Law. If they were really as evil as some people on this thread suggest then they would have crushed the law.

Before 1997, a lot of these anti-China types were predicting doom and gloom for Hong Kong. They said the commies in Beijing would never respect the Basic Law. They were wrong.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by ranskaldan


Their lives have become much freer, wealthier, and happier over the last 20 years, and will become even better over the next 20.

You can't jump from step 1 to step 100. The country would collapse like that. But you can walk, or even run. And China is running.

Wealth tends to be a liberating factor. Go, go, go!

[Zylka]

Try travelling your own ****ing country. Things aren't pretty outside of HK

...and here I thought that aside from British built Hong Kong and the poor emulation of such in other downtown centers - China is just one huge filthy slum of absolute poverty, dirt roads covered in trash, rusted bicycles from eye to eye, TANKS RUNNING OVER PEOPLE, and a sea of corrugated tin roofs held up by shotty wood framing. Surely this makes for a MUCH safer and politically lenient environment than the US?

Wait, maybe that doe

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by ranskaldan
Their lives have become much freer, wealthier, and happier over the last 20 years, and will become even better over the next 20.

You can't jump from step 1 to step 100. The country would collapse like that. But you can walk, or even run. And China is running.

Exactly. One of the problems faced by Mainland China is training enough lawyers and judges so that the rule of law can be established. These things take time.

There's also the problem of finding good administrators at the city and provincial level. The SARS problem is largely the fault of these low level civil servants who hid the problem from the national government.

China has done a great job moving from the Maoist system to a more open system. Just compare China over the last 20 years to Russia.

[ranskaldan]

Originally posted by Zylka
...and here I thought that aside from British built Hong Kong and the poor emulation of such in other downtown centers - China is just one huge filthy slum of absolute poverty, dirt roads covered in trash, rusted bicycles from eye to eye, TANKS RUNNING OVER PEOPLE, and a sea of corrugated tin roofs held up by shotty wood framing. Surely this makes for a MUCH safer and politically lenient environment than the US?

Wait, maybe that doe

Just when I thought everyone was nearing some sort of agreement.

I'll come back tomorrow to see how THIS turns out.

[Tingkai]

Re: Try travelling your own ****ing country. Things aren't pretty outside of HK

Originally posted by Zylka
China is just one huge filthy slum of absolute poverty, dirt roads covered in trash, rusted bicycles from eye to eye, TANKS RUNNING OVER PEOPLE, and a sea of corrugated tin roofs held up by shotty wood framing. Surely this makes for a MUCH safer and politically lenient environment than the US?

Wait, maybe that doe

So Zylka, when were you in China?

[ranskaldan]

Re: Re: Try travelling your own ****ing country. Things aren't pretty outside of HK

Originally posted by Tingkai


So Zylka, when were you in China?

Have fun.

[Zylka]

Re: Re: Try travelling your own ****ing country. Things aren't pretty outside of HK

Originally posted by Tingkai


So Zylka, when were you in China?

1996. My father unfortunately had some returning business with your disasterous little "empire" and took me along as a kind of scare me straight lesson in how lucky I am. Aside from from the GOVERNMENT CONTROLLED TAXI CAB PROGRAM which supplied a non English speaking driver who thought it appropriate to drop us off at BIA instead of our hotel (12 miles away), I found the funniest part to be the shocking poverty and near helpless group mentality.

Good enough? By the way - So, when have YOU been to China? Doesn't sound like you've had much of the tour yet.

[Jack_www]

ranskaldan I am sorry to say this, but China is one of the worst offenders of Humand Rights in the world, and if you refuse to see that fact, then I dont know what I can do or say to change your mind. I know if I moved to CHina that I could not pratice my religion, or if i did i would end up in prison or worse.

As for the school shootings, those are crimes comited against other people by people they meet. And I cannot see how you can comparing the two when one is a crime commited againt someone by a fellow human, while the other is crimes commited by a government against its own people. CHINA ABUSES HUMAN RIGHTS, and I am sorry if it hurts you to hear that but its the truth. Chinese people are not the problem, its the government that rules them thats the problem.

And I did read your post.

Urban Ranger China is a member of the UN, and the UN has a charter with a list of various human rights and China has violated almost all of them. Also as for US troop shoting reporters on purpose please prove that statement and give me the proof that makes you say they shot reporters on purpose.

[Zylka]

HAHAHAHA come on now, NOTHING? Seriously, have you ever visited your country outside of HK? Did you dare to stray out of the downtown areas? 80% of your country is like a big f*cking shanty town mess spilling out into a polluted harbour

I wouldn't want to be so truthful if you weren't all grouping together chanting love poems which praise your disaster area over the UNSAFE LIFE OF THE USA! BLACK PEOPLE CARRY GUNS OVER THERE

[Tingkai]

Zylka, I've only been to Kunming, Xian, Guangzhou, Beijing, Nanking, Shanghai, Tthe city where they make Tsingtao beer (Tientien?), Wusu (sp?), and Macau. So obviously I don't have your expertise.

Where exactly did you go in China?

Where did you see "a sea of corrugated tin roofs held up by shotty wood framing." I ask that because most of the cities I have seen have brick buildings, yes even in the older run-down areas.

Where did you see the "dirt roads covered in trash"? Surely not Beijing. The streets there are paved. As for trash, yes, I've seen lots of garbage, but just like in American cities, it is usually off to the side rather than covering the roads.

Where did you see "rusted bicycles from eye to eye"? The problem these days is the declining number of bicycles and the increased number of private cars. The days when the streets were filled with bike riders is long gone. But that's just my experience.

Please, tell us more about your trip. How long were you there? Where did you go? I'd really like to know because I have never been to any Chinese city that is "a shanty town spilling out into a polluted harbour."

Are you sure you went to China. Maybe you went to Hanoi, or was it Rio, or maybe it was Halifax.