Abortion......I will now use my psychic powers to predict the most popular....

[Lincoln]

"why bring another UNWANTED baby into an already overpopulated world?? Is that Fair?"

Is it "fair" to make the choice for the child? Many unwanted people have made very substantial contributions to society. Why would you assume that they should be killed anyway?

[Jaguar]

Originally posted by Drogue
1 - I don't think the foetus is alive

Short question:

Does it somehow magically become alive when it pops out? What does its location have to do with its level of "human-ness"?

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Lincoln
Can the woman also "withdraw here services" once the child is born? Would it be OK if she just let the child die and did not feed her?

Yes, which is why we have social services and adoption agencies, to prevent the childs death. If the mother feels she cannot cope, giving up the baby could be the best option.

Originally posted by Lincoln
Can a captain of a ship "withdraw his services" to his passengers? Can he just let them all die and let the ship go into the rock if he choses?

No, he has signed a contract to say he will carry those passengers, and they have paid for it. He is probably able to take them back to shore and refund their money, thus withdrawing his services, however he cannot breach any contract he has signed.

[Lincoln]

Whether he has signed a contract or not he cannot kill them by neglect.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Lincoln
"why bring another UNWANTED baby into an already overpopulated world?? Is that Fair?"

Is it "fair" to make the choice for the child? Many unwanted people have made very substantial contributions to society. Why would you assume that they should be killed anyway?

We are not assuming that. We are assuming that it is the mother, as the next of kin's, choice. Like if a person is unconscious on life support, it is the next of kin's choice if the life support is turned off.

Does it somehow magically become alive when it pops out? What does its location have to do with its level of "human-ness"?

If I was forced to choose, I would say when it is able to live outside the womb. As the law currently is in the UK IIRC.

[Lorizael]

What we need is a time machine. Every time a child is conceived, go into the future - to that person's death - and see if they regret their life. If they do, then abort them. If not, let 'em live.

And screw causality problems. Get to asking almost aborted children if they regret their lives.

That's it, enough Apolyton for me, time to get back to my writing.

*sounds of whips in the background*

at self.

[Jaguar]

Originally posted by Lincoln
Whether he has signed a contract or not he cannot kill them by neglect.

Yup.


Drogue, the best way to argue that one is to use the "fetus isn't a person" argument again.

[Jaguar]

OK, leaving this thread now. Good luck to all in your debating.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Lincoln
Whether he has signed a contract or not he cannot kill them by neglect.

If he is still alive. The way I see that is if he drives it into a rock, he is liable, however if he hit the rock by accident, then he is not liable.

However that is not withdrawing his services. If he was not contracted, he is perfectly legally allowed to quit, and withdraw his services.

[Jaguar]

Originally posted by Drogue

If he is still alive. The way I see that is if he drives it into a rock, he is liable, however if he hit the rock by accident, then he is not liable.

However that is not withdrawing his services. If he was not contracted, he is perfectly legally allowed to quit, and withdraw his services.

So what if a guy offers to take you deep sea fishing, and never promises not to abandon you. Does that give him the right to abandon you in the middle of the ocean?



It was too easy, I had to come back for just this one post.

Now, self, you have to work so you can meet the monday deadline, dammit!

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior
Drogue, the best way to argue that one is to use the "fetus isn't a person" argument again.

I prefer to only use that as a last resort, as it is a point of contention. I have been known to answer that even if I really didn't care whether it is or not, I would still be pro-choice. Without the foetus being able to articulate it's wishes, it falls to the next of kin, the mother. Also, I don't see that much of a difference between an abortion and the morning after pill. Both do the same job, both after sex.

[Lincoln]

Originally posted by Drogue

If he is still alive. The way I see that is if he drives it into a rock, he is liable, however if he hit the rock by accident, then he is not liable.

However that is not withdrawing his services. If he was not contracted, he is perfectly legally allowed to quit, and withdraw his services.

Of course the willful aborting of a pregnancy is no accident...

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior
So what if a guy offers to take you deep sea fishing, and never promises not to abandon you. Does that give him the right to abandon you in the middle of the ocean?

In the middle of the ocean? In the boat I presume. Well, yes he probably does. Like if you go to the cinema with somebody, but fall out with them while you are there, and walk off before taking them back. You have broken no law, although probably lost a friend. It is the same, albeit less extreme.

Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior
Now, self, you have to work so you can meet the monday deadline, dammit!

No the feeling, with me, it's more "Sleep " I hate having to go out after all nighters

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Lincoln
Of course the willful aborting of a pregnancy is no accident...

True, but read the 2nd part opf that answer. The first answered your question, but did not relate to abortion. The 2nd was relating it to abortion, and the withdrawl of services. Crashing, even as an accident, is not necessarily a withdrawl of services.

If he was not contracted, he is perfectly legally allowed to quit, and withdraw his services.

So is the women. She is allowed to quit and withdraw her services, as it should be IMHO. If the foetus can survive ourside, then it survives outside, if not, then it is never alive.

[Kirnwaffen]

The boat analogy isn't doing much for me. Breaks down too early. You'd probably do better using the life support analogy.