Who Shot Mohammed al-Dura? (long)

[Arrian]

Excellent sweeping generalizations you have there, Olaf.

I doubt the Israelis would be surprised that your UN soldier buddy hates them. The Israelis are convinced the UN is out to get them.

-Arrian

[Jaakko]

Originally posted by Oerdin


All the news clips on TV show the Palestinian militia running around firing AK-47s. As prieviously meantioned the Israeli infantryman's rifle is the wrong caliber.

a) Infantry support weapons might well be of a different calibre.

b) I seem to distinctly recall Israel arming the Palestinian security forces at some point, with US-made weapons.

I'm just interested in getting the facts straight.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Olaf HÃ¥rfagre
As if the Israeli army didn't deliberately or accidentally, or most likely both, killed 1000's of other kids since this event happened? Or at least 100's.

My UN soldier veteran buddy hates Israelis and Serbs. They are the worst war criminals. He has personally, by his own hands, put a Swedish body bag into the freezer because of the Israelis trigger-happiness. To compare nations, the Americans shoot first and ask the questions later, while the Israelis shoot first and ask no questions at all.

It all comes back to the fact that the Palestinians can stop the violience any time they want to but the Israelis can't. It is the Palestinians who have always refused peace and until the PALESTINIANS make that change then there is nothing Israel can do.

This case is cut and dried.

[Chemical Ollie]

Originally posted by Arrian
Excellent sweeping generalizations you have there, Olaf.

I doubt the Israelis would be surprised that your UN soldier buddy hates them. The Israelis are convinced the UN is out to get them.

-Arrian

Why shouldn't they? If it weren't for the US veto in UNSC, Israel would be toast (not military, but politically).

The UN grunts got some kind of revenge for the casualties later that year, They were on leave in Tel Aviv and passed a group of people standing in line outside a disco. A soldier from Norway walked straight towards the line, pointed at the the front guy and started to count:

- Arbeit, Gaz, Arbeit, Gaz, Arbeit, Gaz, Arbeit, Gaz...

Then they had to run for it. Fast. Somehow they managed to escape from the outraged crowd.

I admit it was tasteless of them to make holocost references as a joke, (IIRC, that could get you 5 years prison in Israel) but put into perspective I get the point. The Israelis killed their friends after all.

[Chemical Ollie]

Originally posted by Oerdin


It all comes back to the fact that the Palestinians can stop the violience any time they want to but the Israelis can't. It is the Palestinians who have always refused peace and until the PALESTINIANS make that change then there is nothing Israel can do.

This case is cut and dried.

I personally believe that the Israelis have better control of their population's behavior than the Palestinians have. The Palestinian territory is more or less anarchy, partly because the Arabs can't organize things and partly because the Israelis won't allow them to.

[Eli]

What population behaviour? The Israeli population commits barely no hostile acts.

He's talking about the IDF. The IDF cannot know about an impending attack and just sit and do nothing and this is why Israel cant stop the violence while terror threats continue.

[gsmoove23]

Voting Likud is a hostile act.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Olaf HÃ¥rfagre
Why shouldn't they? If it weren't for the US veto in UNSC, Israel would be toast (not military, but politically).

The reason the UN is constiently after Israel but gives Sudan, Iran, and Cuba a pass is because there are close to twenty Arab states all who have a hard on for Israel. You can also remember that North Korea would have been on the political chopping block years ago except the communist Chinese keep looking out for them.

[Chemical Ollie]

There's plenty of jewish settlers armed with assault rifles who commit terrorist acts against palestinians. But my buddy faced the IDF, allright. And they shoot first and ask no questions at all.

[Dinner]

I would too. It is a declared warzone after all. BTW your moral equivalience agrument just doesn't hold water. Total up the attacks & the number of people killed by rogue settlers; now compare it against the state sponsored murders the PA uses day after day. Gee, it looks like the Arabs terrorists are racking up a much bigger pile doesn't it? Like 20 or 30 times bigger.
You can't just say "well, three years ago one settler he..." and then try to say it is the same as the hundreds of state sponsored murders the PA does each year.

And I haven't even gotten into the fact that the Israelis go miles out of their way to save innocents lives where possible while the Palestinian facists sole goal is to kill innocents.

[Chemical Ollie]

Yeah, the veto works both ways. The good side is that it stops superpowers to start wars of aggression. Or at least that was the idea. Not that it has worked as it should that often. Not before and not now.

[Eli]

There's plenty of jewish settlers armed with assault rifles who commit terrorist acts against palestinians.

BS propaganda. There is a tiny group who in the past 3 years had commited three minor attacks. All the rest are disturbance and nothing more.

Unless you want to call Pal stone throwers terrorists too?

[Chemical Ollie]

Originally posted by Oerdin


The reason the UN is constiently after Israel but gives Sudan, ... You can also remember that North Korea ...

If NK is bad, would that make Israel good?

[Eli]

Originally posted by Olaf HÃ¥rfagre
Yeah, the veto works both ways. The good side is that it stops superpowers to start wars of aggression. Or at least that was the idea. Not that it has worked as it should that often. Not before and not now.

Instead it allows countries like Egypt and Syria to start wars of annihilation...

A little quiz... When did the UN called for cease fire during the Yom Kippur war? When Israeli troops were outnumbered 20 to 1 barely holding the line? When Egyptian and Syrian forces were making thrusts to Israeli territory? When Dayan was talking about the fall of the third temple? Or when the Israeli succesful counter attack moved the fighting to enemy territory.

What did the UN do in 1967 when Nasser violated agreements and demanded them to leave Sinai? Nothing.
What did the UN do when Hizballah terrorists, used UN vehicles to kidnap three Israeli soldiers in 2000? Nothing.
What the UN does in the last two years when the Hizballah constantly bombards Israeli towns and cities? Nothing.

Maybe in the UN was trigger happy it would've done something...

[Chemical Ollie]

Originally posted by Eli

There's plenty of jewish settlers armed with assault rifles who commit terrorist acts against palestinians.

BS propaganda. There is a tiny group who in the past 3 years had commited three minor attacks. All the rest are disturbance and nothing more.

Unless you want to call Pal stone throwers terrorists too?

I would definately call stone throwers terrorists. There are plnty of these in Sweden too. Anyone remember the EU meeting in Gothenbourg 2001? And my UN buddie got a big stone right into his lap through the closed car window in Hebron. But he considers the IDF worse. A stone is preferred to a heavy MG bullet 8 days of the week.