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Japanese Deflationary Spiral...

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  • #16
    Think about it speer baby, you're in a deflationary spiral. Why buy today what's gonna be cheaper to buy tomorrow? Have this logic keep up for a decade and that's a lot of people simply not buying stuff.
    Exult in your existence, because that very process has blundered unwittingly on its own negation. Only a small, local negation, to be sure: only one species, and only a minority of that species; but there lies hope. [...] Stand tall, Bipedal Ape. The shark may outswim you, the cheetah outrun you, the swift outfly you, the capuchin outclimb you, the elephant outpower you, the redwood outlast you. But you have the biggest gifts of all: the gift of understanding the ruthlessly cruel process that gave us all existence [and the] gift of revulsion against its implications.
    -Richard Dawkins

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    • #17
      It looks to me like Japan, Inc. need a major tax cut.
      http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

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      • #18
        Year-on-year inflation has come in at -3.5%. This seems a bit drastic and worrying to me. It seems like the Japanese have just given up on the issue.



        The economy didn't grow at all over the last quarter.
        Year on year Japan's GDP has grown by 2.7%, that's faster then the US. (domestic demand grew by 2.3%, so it isn't just exports)

        It would seem to be extremely difficult for any business to do well in this environment. Toyota seems to be one of the few Japanese companies that can actually make a profit.
        Nissan, Honda, Canon, Fast Retailing...

        Sony's profits are pathetic. Might as well stick your money in your mattress.
        1$ billion in the quarter ending December last year.

        I think that most Toyotas sold in the States are assembled here in the States using Japanese and American parts. So even if the price were to go down, it wouldn't be that far of a drop.

        Re their imports and exports, Japan imports/exports only slightly more than does the US (surprise, surprise)--only about 12% of their economy, IIRC. However, the impact of that 12% is magnified by the fact that most of those exports are industrial goods rather than services. Industry comprises 25% of Japan's economy, much more than the US' ~15%. Industry has been suffering deflation worldwide, especially in the industries that are Japan's stock and trade.

        This is a post-industrial world we're living in...
        I don't see why the composition of GDP or exports matters. A service sector isn't by definition more advanced than a manufacturing sector and an economy with a proportionally larger service sector isn't by definition wealthier. (Japan is still richer than the UK for instance, by all measures of GDP)
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        • #19
          i know nothing about economics but... since inflation is generally seen as a negative thing, wouldn't deflation be a positive?
          No, it isn't.

          i guess the problem is in having less money is circulation means less investment, less purchases, and less business growth... but still, isnt inflation worse?
          Depends on the circumstances. In the present economic conditions, both deflation and high inflation are bad things.

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          • #20
            Japan keeps the yen artificially low, so thats one of the reasons why they have a current account surplus.
            "Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini

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            • #21
              Thats the problem with people that made money as merchandice. You'll get some cycles and all differences from normal would give you big shock.
              You have still need to buy food, so no problem. Computer industry was in deflation several years and still exist.
              Last edited by raghar; May 16, 2003, 17:43.

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              • #22
                japan doesn't need a tax cut. although it is high, so i can't see it hurting if they did do it.

                no, what japan really needs is an administration with enough balls to actually make some reforms.

                then again, the only asian country that did that was skorea, but that's only because they would have completely collapsed if they hadn't. japan's got a while to go before a collapse, so...
                B♭3

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by DanS
                  Oerdin: Didn't you say you are going to live in Japan? That is rattling around in my brain somewhere...
                  Hmm, nope not me. I've been to Japan and I like the country but I'm going to be sticking around California for the forseable future.
                  Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Oerdin
                    Hmm, nope not me. I've been to Japan and I like the country but I'm going to be sticking around California for the forseable future.

                    Last I heard Japan was one of the most heavily regulated markets on Earth. It's currently in something of a catch 22; the banks are on the verge of collapsing because so many companies are bankrupt or cannot pay their bills. Many of these loans were originally made due to government pressure (the government had targeted certain industries for growth and they pressured the banks to lend money at very favorable rates to those sellected industries) or where secured using realestate or stocks (the value of both has fallen off of a cliff).

                    The banks can't lend any more because then they'll be bankrupt for sure but businesses can't grow without access to capital. So now what do you do? Do you let foreign banks in? The Japanese government doesn't want to go to far down that road or else the competetive pressure will push the domestic banks over. Do you put the bankrupt companies out of business knowing that will mean the majority of your banks will fail or do you do nothing?

                    The Japanese, by and large, have choicen to do nothing. They've tinkered around the edges but the system has largely stayed the same.
                    Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                    • #25
                      Year on year Japan's GDP has grown by 2.7%, that's faster then the US.

                      That doesn't seem right. Could you recheck your numbers?

                      1$ billion in the quarter ending December last year.

                      $820 billion loss in the quarter ending March this year.

                      I don't see why the composition of GDP or exports matters.

                      Because the overseas competition in manufacturing is particularly fierce nowadays.

                      Re Honda and Canon, yes they seem to make respectable profits. But there are so many companies that make hardly any profit at all.
                      Last edited by DanS; May 17, 2003, 12:54.
                      I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by chegitz guevara
                        How will this affect Japanese imports and exports? Will Toyota's become cheaper here in the States?
                        Not necessarily. The price of Toyotas are different in each country. The price of cars in the US will depend on the US market.
                        I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                        - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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                        • #27
                          Reckon it will happen in the EU too. Too strict an inflation target, in addition to strengthening Euro...
                          www.my-piano.blogspot

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                          • #28
                            Why can't the Japanese government drastically increase demand? AFAIK, the financial situation for the Japanese government is still superb. Why not increase spending, and order some immense project, say... a decent space program.
                            urgh.NSFW

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                            • #29
                              Gosh, why hadn't they thought of that one before!
                              www.my-piano.blogspot

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                              • #30
                                Japan needs some direct involvement in their economy. Monetary stimulus may not be working becuase of the banking situation. The govt should get into the loaning business. I believe Germany is considering this. If banks wont make the loans a market failure exists, so the govt must step in. That, and some govt spending on infrastructure if there are any possible projects.

                                Right now the Japanese seem ready to accept deflation. I predict big problems if they do. I don't think the banks are going to initiate the recovery. They are going to wait until the financial situation improves.
                                I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                                - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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