Abolish Tuition Fees, Vote Conservative!

[Solly]

I would not moan at having to do so, so long as some charges apply equally to all students, regardless of income or upbringing, and that those students have access to loans plenty enough to provide for the costs and the associated means of living.

Doesn't it slightly surprise you that the best nightlife spots are in areas where there are large or many universities? If students were so poor...

Lastly, I'd like to question your integrity of making this point. Correct me if you will by pointing out a past post on this forum, but I don't remember you arguing with such vigour against student fees before the Tories came up with it to gain a few middle-class votes.

Class yourself a Tory if you will, but don't let their latest policy idea dictate your opinions.

[MikeH]

Not all students are poor. A lot of them get loads of money from their parents.

The ones that are poor really do struggle though, like EiF's housemate.

[Solly]

"The ones that are poor really do struggle though, like EiF's housemate."

Two of my housemates next door get nothing from their parents. Apart from their thinness due to only liking crisps and burgers, they do get by. They don't hold a job either.

[*End Is Forever*]

I've always been against fees. I have consistently argued against fees within Conservative Future, and have put those same arguments, with conviction, to numerous senior Conservative politicians. I have been elected as a York delegate to NUS Conference twice (once as delegation leader) with a commitment to work towards the abolition of fees, and I was elected to NUS Higher Education National Committee on a platform of opposing fees.

If you want to disagree with my opinions that's fair enough, but to say I've changed my position on fees is quite simply utter tripe.

[TheStinger]

I fail to see whats wrong with loans to pay living costs. I also think tuition fees should be paid by the government.

[TheStinger]

Originally posted by *End Is Forever*
I've always been against fees. I have consistently argued against fees within Conservative Future, and have put those same arguments, with conviction, to numerous senior Conservative politicians. I have been elected as a York delegate to NUS Conference twice (once as delegation leader) with a commitment to work towards the abolition of fees, and I was elected to NUS Higher Education National Committee on a platform of opposing fees.

If you want to disagree with my opinions that's fair enough, but to say I've changed my position on fees is quite simply utter tripe.

Do the lefties at the NUS spit at you for being Tory. My experiance of most NUS types is that they are intolerant idiots

[Solly]

I also think tuition fees should be paid by the government.

At the point of purchase, I'd happily agree.

[*End Is Forever*]

Do the lefties at the NUS spit at you for being Tory. My experiance of most NUS types is that they are intolerant idiots

It depends. There's a fair group of us at NUS Conference now, so it's not like a tiny group hiding in the corner anymore. Obviously the extreme-left are as vindictive as ever but for the most part they are there to be laughed off, but we came out of this year's Conference in better shape than ever...

[reds4ever]

Originally posted by Boddington's

Doesn't it slightly surprise you that the best nightlife spots are in areas where there are large or many universities? If students were so poor...

Around 5 years ago John Moores University in Liverpool handed out a questionaire asking it's students why they choose that Uni over the others, the top anwser? The nightclub Cream!
And as a person who used to go, I can tell you it wasn't a cheap night out!

[*End Is Forever*]

Well you certainly wouldn't go to JMU for the teaching...

[DanS]

but we're back at the vexed question of debt

Why is that a vexed question? Many people have a home mortgage and seem to do just fine. An education is a longer-term asset than a house, so could pay the loan out over an even longer period than for houses, and based on individual circumstances.

Fair point, those loans are government run and very low interest though.

I don't have any problem with a subsidized and synthetic student loan market. We have the same over here. Or rather, many of the loans are sold by banks, then they are bought, packaged and securitized by Sallie Mae, a government/public corporation, which in turn sells the resulting securities to big investors like Sten. Long story short, there is lots of government involvement, but it's a market solution, by and large.

Interest accrues during your time in school, but you don't have to pay it back while in school. You get 6 months grace once you're out of school. If you go back to school full time for another degree, payment obligation is suspended.

You can do all sorts of things to reduce the hardships and inequities in a loan-based system, if you are so inclined.

[MikeH]

Yeah, I just meant that the government might not want to have too much money in that loan scheme at any one time.

You don't have to pay them back until you are earning a certain amount which means there's no guarantee when they get it back.

[DanS]

Yeah, I just meant that the government might not want to have too much money in that loan scheme at any one time.

You don't have to pay them back until you are earning a certain amount which means there's no guarantee when they get it back.

That's why our government put in place a market system whereby the student loans are packaged, securitized and then sold to investors. The investors bear the risk, while the government bears some up-front costs, based on what kind of activity it wants to promote (means-testing on payments is an expensive proposition for the gov't and doesn't make much sense to me anyway). Investors are much more capable than the government of figuring out these parameters over the long run. The government just sets the rules for a standard loan.

[Solly]

And yet again, another argument comes down to those who favour markets to those who don't. Strange how the Tories are favouring the anti-market solution.

[Solly]

And yet again, another argument comes down to those who favour markets to those who don't. Strange how the Tories are favouring the anti-market solution.